The difference between logging and Suburban Tree Work

[rico]

Your videos are mind numbing!
I always enjoy watching them thanks for posting them.
Much respect for your knowledge and experience @rico

Thanks for the kind words. I am presently getting my ass kicked by Lyme disease, so a little love is much appreciated.

 

[VenasNursery]

Thanks for the kind words. I am presently getting my ass kicked by Lyme disease, so a little love is much appreciated.

Best of luck with the Lyme disease

 

[Daniel]

Not sure if I posted this vid here before. If I have I apologize for wasting 2.5 minutes that you will never get back.

my favorite part of that video is watching you drop the saw and run for your life... like you know what's coming.... Watched it years ago, but just now noticed that big decidous lead than came back across the road.... That's a whole other level of danger...

I'll pm you about the lyme...

 

[evo]

Not sure if I posted this vid here before. If I have I apologize for wasting 2.5 minutes that you will never get back.

I have all night for you sweety

 

[evo]

Thanks for the kind words. I am presently getting my ass kicked by Lyme disease, so a little love is much appreciated.

Fawk, sorry to hear that. Anything I can do?

 

[TreeCo]

I AM going to guess that my fat tapered hinges have 2-3X stronger holding ability agianst side lean than a straight hinge of 10% diameter. That's 200% to 300% stronger. The you take that fat boy tapered hinge and throw in a sizwheel and center plunge and you're getting 4-5x strength. Just a guess of course and it could be way off.

Damn right it is "just a guess".

You are totally pulling numbers out of your ass.

Do you feel you are divinly inspired?

 

[Daniel]

Do you feel you are divinly inspired?

Not about this... Just seeing what works in the field.... and certain that the center plunge offers more than 10% greater hinge strength as was suggested by David or maybe it was Bart.

You got any better ideas?

 

[TreeCo]

Not about this... Just seeing what works in the field.... and certain that the center plunge offers more than 10% greater hinge strength as was suggested by David.

You got any better ideas?

10% sounds reasonable.

You talking about 200, 300, 400 and 500% are absurd figures and are pure fabrication.

 

[Daniel]

10% sounds reasonable.

You talking about 200, 300, 400 and 500% are absurd figures and are pure fabrication.

As I said.. these are guesses based on experience, which i can back up with video examples....I think i have published more videos of pulling the most extreme and heavy back and side leaners than anyone on YouTube with the possible exception of August

What have you done?

You're a keyboard warrior...

I put the trees on the ground...

 

[rico]

I think i have published more videos of pulling the most extreme and heavy back and side leaners than anyone on YouTube

 

[evo]

I AM going to guess that my fat tapered hinges have 2-3X stronger holding ability agianst side lean than a straight hinge of 10% diameter. That's 200% to 300% stronger. The you take that fat boy tapered hinge and throw in a sizwheel and center plunge and you're getting 4-5x strength. Just a guess of course and it could be way off.

Fat taped hinge = 2-3x
Siz = 4-5x? Of what?

Are we factoring?
Exponential?

Exponential function - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Daniel]

Stronger holding ability vs side lean

I AM going to guess that my fat tapered hinges have 2-3X stronger ability agianst side lean than a straight hinge of 10% diameter.

Just like it says....
Is there something unclear about that?

 

[TreeCo]

As I said.. these are guesses based on experience, which i can back up with video examples....I think i have published more videos of pulling the most extreme and heavy back and side leaners than anyone on YouTube with the possible exception of August

What have you done?

You're a keyboard warrior...

I put the trees on the ground...

I did the same stuff that you did and during the same time period, too, but maybe with a little more emphasis on tree care and pruning and less of being a 'bucket baby'. CA starting in 1989.

You are nothing more than a YouTube warrior, and most of your YouTube stuff is pablum as is constantly being pointed out here at the Buzz.

 

[Daniel]

I did the same stuff that you did and during the same time period, too, but maybe with a little more emphasis on tree care and pruning and less of being a 'bucket baby'. CA starting in 1989.

You are nothing more than a YouTube warrior, and most of your YouTube stuff is pablum as is constantly being pointed out here at the Buzz.

By that standard, if you want to call me a bucket baby... you are a keyboard warrior... how long has it been since you cut trees for a living?

A lot has changed over the last 15 years...you're never going to hear me criticizing someone's climbing skill on single line...

You got but hurt 20 years ago and have been holding a grudge ever since...have you nothing better to do with your time than spew ugliness online?

You're pitiful... I pity you.

 

[TreeCo]

By that standard, if you want to call me a bucket baby... you are a keyboard warrior... how long has it been since you cut trees for a living?

A lot has changed over the years...you're never going to hear me criticizing someone's climbing skill on single line...

You got but hurt 20 years ago and have been holding a grudge ever since...have you nothing better to do with your time than spew ugliness online?

You're pitiful... I pity you.

I've said all I need to say so carry on with your drivel.

 

[davidwyby]

It’d be super cool for the rest of us if yall would drop it.

 

[davidwyby]

Why would you ever say that? That's just not realistic... nowhere near it...wood fibers have elasticity... and depending on how the cut is made, you can get more than enough movement out of the hinge before failure.

Not sure how many side leaners and how much lean you've been dealing with, but I've been making a living for 20 years bidding trees that would have to be rigged or crane out by anyone else around here.

Cuz it’s what I’ve observed…pretty much everything here is as brittle green as your stuff is dead.

 

[Daniel]

I looked at a bunch of your videos a while ago.. forgot that was you though... some good stuff for sure... particularly the big eucs like this...

the swing dutchman in the video you psoted above in post #177 didn't work too well... I've seen them get far more hold than I would have expected on some leaners, or on others, pop, blow up, and give close to zero hold from the lean.. and it's tough to figure out why. That's why Dent stopped teaching the swing Dutchman, even though it seems well regarded in his book.

I think the main differrence between our perspectives is that you can't get the kind of control I'm talking about without a pull line and a lot of pulling power... it's the combination of the offset to the direction of pull with a ton of pull and the fat tapered hinges with sizwheels and center plunges that can fight those monster side leaners... Though on certain species you might be able to get the fat hinge working when they have enough size and front lean, in most scenarios you need a pull line... that little bit of lean in vid from post 177 isn't strong enough to trip a truly fat hinge..

thanks for adding something to think about to the conversation... wish there more like you around here!

 

[davidwyby]

@Daniel those eucs were xtra lean and xtra brittle and spiral grain. There's a little series of those small leaners, all the same trees. The only one that I think half way hinged was my crazy experiment, the bear claw slash face. Might have just been the tree. You can see the grain in the quad hinge.

If you go back further you will see me generate momentum on some pulls. About 3yr ago with the M35A2. More recently an oak with my 7500lb cummins dodge. Momentum reduces the need for the hinge to hold...the hinge only needs to hold while the tree is static. If we winched those side leaners, they would tilt to the winch 15 degrees, snap off, and fall with the lean/weight.

The trees in the compilation the hinged the best were 80' tall and winched, so I think they seemed to hinge better than they actually did, because it was slow. They are the back yard euc videos. I eliminated side lean with them because the shots were tight and euc is untrustworthy. Winched because they back leaned over the neighbor's and there was no room to move a vehicle and make momentum. Employed midline log to help maintain pull speed.

 

[Bart_]

On a tapered hinge resisting side lean - if you made the whole hinge 30% thicker than standard 10%dia thickness then the hinge would be initially 30% stronger (1st power of thickness). If you then cut it to taper 13%dia
(10% + 30% of 10%dia) down to standard you get less than 30% strength increase, without running the math on the geometry I'd estimate +20% strength increase.

e.g. numbers 10% thick hinge on 24" dbh = 2.4" thick, +30% = 3.12" thick

Step1 moments of inertia - simple
Step 2 - calculate normal forces, moments and shear forces - bit harder
Step 3 - calculate and combine stresses into max localized values i.e. compare to yield strength - hard
Step1to3 - do this parametrically with dbh, log length density weight lean angle to learn something e.g. factor of safety
this is all independent of the topic of hinge failure mechanism except as applies to yield strength


So far an interesting side note is that shear stress is max midway as opposed the moment generated normal stress which is max at the edges. Shear is quadratic distribution not linear too.