Tenex Crossover ?? for symposium folks...

[rfwoodvt]

I've been beating my head against the wall trying to decipher my notes from the spring splicing symposium for the tenex eye and eye crossover.

Rich H taught that segment and I thought I had it down but alas, I'm just brain dead

So, here's what I need help with:

When we measures the expanded cross over section (after the buries are made but before the final trimming and tapers) we added 1/2 inch to that measurement.

I understand that was to compensate for the extra length gained when the tails are sucked back into the "cover", but what I can't remember is what to do with that measurement.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with trimming the lenghts of the tails. I seem to remember somehow marking the cores then making the tail as long as that measurement and affecting some sort of taper. But that's a SWAG at best.

Can anyone 'splain it to me again?

Taking it from there my notes said that the expanded cross over is often 4 to 5 inches long. When I lay out my cross over for eye & eyes longer or shorter than the ones we made in class how far on either side of the center mark should I put the exit marks?

ThanX!

 

[oldoakman]

Guess you'll just have to come down to Georgia in March to find out the answer to that.

Seriously, just give Rich a call. I'm sure he will help you out.

 

[MooseHead]

[ QUOTE ]
Guess you'll just have to come down to Georgia in March to find out the answer to that.

Seriously, just give Rich a call. I'm sure he will help you out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ga? Is there a class going on? If so when and where will it be held? Price? Sorry for derail.

 

[Jman]

http://www.knotandrope.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=877&idcategory=62

I'm terrible at explaining that type of thing threw text, a quick phone should set you strait.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

georgia here i come!

 

[oldoakman]

Jeff, you may as well move over here for as many trips you will be making this way over the next few months.

 

[markprz]

Rick,
Ring me... let's talk it through... or.... Skype splicing session anyone?

 

[chris_girard]

Hey Rick, just wondering if you got an answer to your question about that 1/2" number?

The way that I remember Rich explaining it to me is like this:

For 3/8” Tenex (12 strand hollow braid), you begin with an initial crossover of 4-1/2”. After you mark the center point (mark A), measure out 2-1/4” on each side of the center mark and make mark X on each side. Marks X-X is where your tails will exit. Note: my mark letters come from Samson’s splicing manual.

After you have buried the tails and smoothed all the slack out of the rope, measure your actual crossover, which is still between marks X-X. Let’s say that you measure 3-1/2” (Note: this number will change depending on the prussic length and rope type). You then take the 3-1/2” and add 1/2" to get 4”. This 4” becomes you “Magic Number”.

Now, mark the tails where they exited at each X, I call this mark 1. Pull both tails out at mark 1 and measure back towards the crossover, using your “Magic Number” of 4”. Cut the tails off here. Before burying the tails again, taper the ends evenly.

The way that Rich says to taper the tails is to fan out the 6 strands (or paired strands, if you’re using Tenex Tec). Move the top most strand off to the side and do not cut this strand. Take the bottom most strand and measure back 4” from the end and cut it there. Now just cut the remaining 4 strands evenly between the top and bottom ones. Do this for the other tail as well, only invert the sequence, so that they’ll overlap evenly, and then do your final bury.

Rick, what I did when first learning this technique was to dissect a few splices and lay the tails out next to the crossover so you can see what everything looks like when it is buried. Gives you a very good visual.

 

[Blinky]

[ QUOTE ]
... This 4” becomes you “Magic Number”.

Now, mark the tails where they exited at each X, I call this mark 1. Pull both tails out at mark 1 and measure back towards the crossover, using your “Magic Number” of 4”. Cut the tails off here. Before burying the tails again, taper the ends evenly.
...

[/ QUOTE ]

I may misunderstand but I think you mean to begin the taper here rather than cut off the tails and you cut off what's left of the tail at Mark 1, eh?

 

[oldoakman]

I tried to corner Rich H. at the Charlotte comp about this very question and we never did get the opportunity to finish our conversation. Perhaps her would be kind enough to jump in here?? Rich???

 

[rich_h]

Chip has it right.. the idea is that when you perform a 4.5" crossover you end up with the two legs sticking out with a doubled section in between..this doubled section I refer to as the "actual crossover". Once you measure the actual crossover you can mark where the two legs exit the core, pull the legs out a bit and cut them just to the inside of your mark and then taper the legs for the "actual crossover" + 1/2" inch. "Actual" + 1/4" works pretty well also depending on how crazy you get removing slack prior to measuring the crossover..

The main reason for the additional measurement is that when you unfurl the legs prior to tapering you are actually lengthening them vs. when they were in the braided state...

This may not work for everyone, but it does seem to work for most....

 

[chris_girard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... This 4” becomes your “Magic Number”.

Now, mark the tails where they exited at each X, I call this mark 1. Pull both tails out at mark 1 and measure back towards the crossover, using your “Magic Number” of 4”. Cut the tails off here. Before burying the tails again, taper the ends evenly.
...

[/ QUOTE ]

I may misunderstand but I think you mean to begin the taper here rather than cut off the tails and you cut off what's left of the tail at Mark 1, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clarifying things up for us Rich. I know that it can be difficult to put these concepts into words.

Sorry if I confused anyone. Like Rich said, Chip is right, and what I meant to say was that after I make mark 1, I pull the tails out a bit and I will cut them off just to the inside of mark 1. Then I taper them back using my “Magic Number”, which as Rich says is the “actual crossover” + 1/2" (or 1/4”).

BTW, learning this method of doing the crossover at last year’s Spring Splicing Symposium made going there well worth it for me, as I never did like the way that Samson shows how to do the crossover in their splicing directions, and this is where I had first learned it.

Hey Rich, one more quick question on the Tenex splice. When you mark your initial strands to be removed at the beginning of the splice, are you using an 8,4,4 or 8,4,3 on the strands? Samson says to mark and remove the 13, 15, and 17th ones and I was just wondering why?