Take it Bigger !

Riggs

Riggs

Participating member
Location
Bryn Mawr , Pa.
Allright , here is the situation , I'm all set up to remove this dead 100 ft.Oak tree ( so dead) . Bucket truck , and a plywood highway . 8:30 a.m. ( today)all trucks ,
boom and chipper are ready for the the task at hand . I'm, a little "old school" so I cut all the suckers on the trunk and than I flushed all
the stubs( 5 minutes) ,I cleaned the tree up a little before the kill. A denist always makes you feel clean before he thrashes you , and a surgeon is no kinder either , he'll even get you high before he breaks you . I'm way beyond arguing , but this "person" was asking me to take bigger cuts,( like I'm a pus) let sleeping dogs lie ,
I was thinking , but I let it pass . I had four hours to take this tree down and it took two hours . Single stem( side leader) Red Oak_power lines , nice lowering crotch , lowered the tree till it was twenty feet off the ground. All professionals take the time to make sure everything runs smoothly . It might take a few small cuts to make one big "you tube" cut and that is just how it is , and that is how it is ...agree?
 
I agree. If it is my job, my equipment, my reputation... I do it the way that I think is best. If it is someone elses job and their stuff is at risk, I might do something their way.
 
Running smooth with no mishaps wins the day. ...and the next day and the day after that, too!
 
yes, agreed.

if that someone is your boss and you get tired of him, come work for us, you won't get that here.

Ask Cuttenwolf, i liked him being safe and smooth vs. big, fast, messy and dangerous.
 
I've never been impressed with the go big or go home guys.

Here's my plug for Taylor Hamel, every move is planned out, he is safe, skilled, calm and professional. A real treat to work with. Plus he has a grcs!
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Any of you guys that need a good contract climber should get in touch with him.
 
Let me understand this. You had 4 hours to get the job done and completed it in 2? I'm assuming the clean up took up the rest of the time? I'd have probably done the same as you.

I don't understand the mentality of taking it to the limit all the time. We are usually working with educated guesses and it is easy to be wrong. If you've got a margin of safety then that mistake isn't going to bite you back.

Big sometimes means more work on the ground that slows the process down more than going smaller.
 
I would never tell someone to take larger pieces, if they were not comfortable with it, or if it creates an unsafe working environment. If the tree was dead then there is no way that I would ever push anyone to take huge pieces. You are in the right and dont let anyone push you to do anything you are not feeling good about. Good luck.

D.W.H
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I'm way beyond arguing , but this "person" was asking me to take bigger cuts,( like I'm a pus) let sleeping dogs lie ,
I was thinking , but I let it pass .

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good on you for keeping cool Riggs
 
Many small steps, efficiently executed, can add up to great progress.--No doubt.

And larger steps (that can be executed safely) speed up progress as well.

Is there a balance?

At what point do the facts of a situation override the feelings (emotion) a person is going through at the moment he/she is performing a job?

What I am saying is this; if there are times when larger pieces can be taken (with factual evidence that it can be done safely) then why not take larger pieces for the sake of production?
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Can emotion cloud our perception of the facts and thus create unnecessary fear of a situation? I believe so. Frankly, I think this is where formal training and a mix of experience is important.--The two should not be separated.

I just question the status quot of thinking, "It is all up to his/her comfort level." That to me sounds like emotions are getting in the way of facts and the more facts we know the more "comfortable" we are to perform larger tasks.

Does it sound like Riggs was afraid to take larger pieces. Absolutely not! He just wants to do it his way...
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And that is a different subject all together.
 
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I've never been impressed with the go big or go home guys.

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you did look good in that tree chair, wonder if you can get a porch around it???
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Here's my plug for Taylor Hamel, every move is planned out, he is safe, skilled, calm and professional. A real treat to work with. Plus he has a grcs! but this "person" was asking me to take bigger cuts,( like I'm a pus)

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sssppppsssss kitty kitty ssspppsssss












ok hold the blows I was only funnin maybe....??????
 
I agree with the central theme of this thread, that a climber has the right to choose what size pieces to rig. They must make decisions and not let those for someone else to decide. That being said, the size of the pieces must be reasonable, and safe. Riggs' situation sounds perfectly legitimate. Getting the job done early emphasizes his grasp of the situation, and I commend you, Riggs, for holding your tongue when the "person" was dogging you. That's a great quality, letting the sleeping dogs lie.
My point is the "reasonable size" of the pieces you rig must not pose a hazard to the climber themselves, the rigging guy(s), or any ground personnel. I'm with Jamin on this a little bit, too, ("Can emotion cloud our perception of the facts and thus create unnecessary fear of a situation? I believe so."), as this climber sometimes puts on chaps to rake.
We did a crane job about half a year ago when the size pieces the climber was taking were too small. It was a 36" white pine, crane was able to get pretty close, a 70 ton model. One of those pines that seemed to be 30"+ all the way to the top. Climber was using one big nylon strap to girth-hitch the picks, and he was taking about 8' sections. Several of the picks went sideways. I asked him to take longer logs because the sling was about 2' from the top of an 8' log, making it tilt, sometimes toward him. Of course, this added some heat to the job, me interfering with the climber's decisions. But I felt it was in the name of safety, since the logs were not staying as vertical/tilting as slowly as they would have been had they been cut longer/heavier.
Before I gave him this suggestion, I asked the crane operator about safe working load, and he said he could take a lot more safely.
Any thoughts on this situation?
 
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Any thoughts on this situation?

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In the military if'in you don't follow orders then uumm you might find yourself with a nose clip and poop pale.
 
Royce's example is a type of situation I would be talking about. Most of the time a climber has a grasp of the removal at hand.

I will admit. There are times where I may have "tunnel vision" and I may miss the better option of doing something. Therefore, there are times when other experienced climbers, crane operators, or even groundsmen have a different perspective of a particular situation.

I must consider their perspective and evaluate the request to do it differently. If I think it is not the better of the two methods, then I proceed my way. I must not let my pride get into the way of a better method.--After all they may have a better way of doing something at that time. And as the business owner and climber for my operation, if something will be safer or faster, then I'm going to do it.
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Suggestions welcome for me. Even if it is "bigger."
 
When I first started doing removals I did go too small. I had the luxury of being able to watch a skilled climber do removals and compare the approach. What I found was initially I was taking more time thinking it through to rationalize the size of the piece and get comfortable with it. With each success I was able to keep working to improve my decision making. That's what it is really about not the size but the thought process in choosing the piece and method of getting it on the ground.

My boss was very good at training so he was able to communicate his rationale for going bigger on a piece and in some cases talking me back to a smaller piece.

It's still about teamwork working with a crane operator or groundie to achieve the best outcome.
 
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