Support groups

tomstrees

tomstrees

Participating member
Just thought of this as a topic--support groups, whether 12 step groups or church groups, etc.. I believe these are invaluable to try to maintain balance, health and address personal issues confidentially, as there are things that could be hard to talk about otherwise. I can't imagine a more dangerous combination, alcohol, drugs and power equipment! Some of the local accidents I've known about have been due to someone impaired involved with power equipment. My older brother got into the AA/NA program in 1988 and it was vital for his recovery and to be a working and functional member of society. I've gone to Al-anon meetings, for those who have these types of issues in their family and friends.
 
I've been with tree work professionals when they've been impaired, one company owner was privy to wine coolers after work and had a near heat stroke downing the alcohol after we'd finished the job. A worker working ropes was a known alcoholic who did not get help and few would hire him, but on this job he was not in sync and caused damage. Another worker was a major cannabis addict who ended up having a disabling accident. Going to the 12 step meetings is imperative if those in higher risk work want to stay employed.
 
I used to drink a whoooooole lot, but I have had many periods in my life where I didn't drink as much. I have only had 5 "drinks" in the last 10 months, and that has settled into the new normal for me, down from having 1-3 everyday.

I do struggle a bit understanding how people don't get over it. I think about having a drink pretty regularly, but the desire to get drunk for it's own sake is something I abandoned ages ago; like 10 years ago or so now. It seems to me to be an issue of willpower. I don't dismiss the severity of the addictive power of alcohol, and even weed, which I am using a lot less of these days as well (4 months or so). I know how hard it has been for me, but I don't think that anything but your own will actually keeps you from using. What most people lack is sufficient motivation, and these substances do weaken your motivation.

I don't think there is anything wrong with needing help to get off of your substances of choice, but I do see a pattern of people essentially replacing their addiction to whatever substance with an addiction to going to meetings. I really don't like the way that 12 steppers talk about addiction; that they are powerless and must give themselves over to a higher power to have the strength to stop. All that kind of talk does is make you think that you are powerless!!

I really wanted to bite my tongue here, but I guess I am just powerless to stop myself ;)
 
Serf Life said:
Are you a gear addict @flushcut ? This is a safe space you know...
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Yes it’s true. I am a gear junkie. My cart was full at Arbsession and I almost hit “pay now”, the return button was under my finger. It’s linked to my PayPal account so it would have been so easy to place that order but I didn’t. All those shiny baubles in my cart, I had to step back and reflect and collect myself. I took comfort in knowing I am not alone and there are others like me.
 
flushcut said:
Yes it’s true. I am a gear junkie. My cart was full at Arbsession and I almost hit “pay now”, the return button was under my finger. It’s linked to my PayPal account so it would have been so easy to place that order but I didn’t. All those shiny baubles in my cart, I had to step back and reflect and collect myself. I took comfort in knowing I am not alone and there are others like me.
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Oh you missed out then. My 2nd arbsession order came in yesterday. I've got iron-clad restraint
 
Matias said:
I used to drink a whoooooole lot, but I have had many periods in my life where I didn't drink as much. I have only had 5 "drinks" in the last 10 months, and that has settled into the new normal for me, down from having 1-3 everyday.

I do struggle a bit understanding how people don't get over it. I think about having a drink pretty regularly, but the desire to get drunk for it's own sake is something I abandoned ages ago; like 10 years ago or so now. It seems to me to be an issue of willpower. I don't dismiss the severity of the addictive power of alcohol, and even weed, which I am using a lot less of these days as well (4 months or so). I know how hard it has been for me, but I don't think that anything but your own will actually keeps you from using. What most people lack is sufficient motivation, and these substances do weaken your motivation.

I don't think there is anything wrong with needing help to get off of your substances of choice, but I do see a pattern of people essentially replacing their addiction to whatever substance with an addiction to going to meetings. I really don't like the way that 12 steppers talk about addiction; that they are powerless and must give themselves over to a higher power to have the strength to stop. All that kind of talk does is make you think that you are powerless!!

I really wanted to bite my tongue here, but I guess I am just powerless to stop myself ;)
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I replaced drinking with tree forums, big mistake! Only partly kidding there :)

I've been around a lot of addiction and addicts, myself included 10 times over. It really seems like some people just need that system or whatever. Much lesser of 2 evils maybe? I've always been turned off by aa but had a friend who went through. I see how it saved him from total destruction and for that I am grateful!
 
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levi r said:
I replaced drinking with tree forums, big mistake! Only partly kidding there :)

I've been around a lot of addiction and addicts, myself included 10 times over. It really seems like some people just need that system or whatever. Much lesser of 2 evils maybe? I've always been turned of by aa but had a friend who went through. I see how it saved him from total destruction and for that I am grateful!
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Like I said, I cast no shame on those who need it, but I do feel like there is room to acknowledge ones own agency in the recovery process. I would love to just just bust into a big meeting every now and then and just announce that they are doing it, not anyone else. If they need to have a specific group of friends that they feel motivated to hold themselves accountable to, that's cool, but I do find it shameful that the leaders of these groups continue to tell these people that they will never have the self control to stay clean, when self control is the ONLY thing keeping them on the path. In any given moment, regardless of what self talk you use to goad yourself alnong the straight and narrow path, you are alone inside yourself, and you really do have the power to walk it yourself.
Obviously meetings are a better alternative to addiction, but those groups would be much better served with a dialogue that grants them ever more agency over their own lives and truly sets them free. Kinda the same gripe I have with religion.
 
Awareness has to be constant with power equipment and accurate assessment of condition.

I've known a few that got disabled using wood splitters, very likely incompetence and alcohol were implicated, guys taking a break on the weekend between football games, two guys on a splitter--a real set up for potential injury, only one person should be running these. The state for a long while made detent (automatic return) valves especially at rental shops illegal.

The risks that climbers face really require people who are 100%, it's not worth taking risks for a couple bucks. The other day a couple kids were trying to get up into a sugar maple to climb, and I explained to them they'd have a lot of trouble climbing it, big pines are something different. Kids really are impressed with tree climbers.
 
One of the best climbers I've known found religion, a little too conservative and fringe for my taste as I went to the church too where I met him in the early 80s. Mike was a really nice and friendly man, did exceptional work. His marriage had fallen apart due to his wife's infidelity. Subsequently he sought out support groups and did exceptional work until the early 2000s when he retired to take care of his parents. He had pangs of guilt at one point about undeclared income, called up the IRS which gobbled up a lot of his savings. He was only making around $20/hr as a climber with one of the leading services in CT. And did not leave the area with much in the way of savings. I always paid him at least $50/hr, sometimes more.

When I was starting out with my small business in the 90s, a friend of my brother, "Toby" was building his full service tree service. He did excellent work, had been in the 12 step programs and had mixed lifestyle issues, with marriages that did not work out having to pay alimonies. A real charger and hard worker with his business. He developed terminal lung cancer a few years ago, probably connected to smoking. What a path to have in life, be in top form in your business doing exception work for decades and not be able to enjoy it into your old age.
 
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I've heard good things about ibogaine
It's a psychedlic that greatly assists in immediate healing of addiction...
It's only legal in Mexico but Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed a law allocating $50 million to fund FDA-approved clinical trials of ibogaine to treat conditions like opioid use disorder and PTSD, particularly in veterans. This law allows a consortium of a public university, a hospital, and a drug developer to study the drug legally within the context of approved clinical trials.


Joe ROgan talks about it. I have a good friend who did it and had her life changed just like that.
I haven't smoked pot since 85 and last sip of beer was 91... so, not an issue here.


I have been to a few 12 step meetings, but I was already clean at the time. I took a worshop from a guy that was very knowledgable in both the 12 steps and the Native American medicine wheel. He developed a good model showing the 12 steps divided into the 3 steps for each of the four directions.. (ie. 1,2,3 in the east... 4,5,6 in the south etc) I found that fascinating. I used to do monthly sweat lodges with him. He was a great speaker and leader in the lodge.


Getting your life in alignment with God is always good. However you find that connection is up to you.


There's another local tree guy that's been meditating for over 50 years. He seems pretty solid and is still cutting trees in his early 70s. The drunks don't seem to last so long. There's an early expiration date for beating your body up day and night.
 
A statistic is that only 10% of regular alcohol drinkers become "alcoholic". AA calls it an allergic reaction as the alcohol hits critical mass in the body and the cells rebel. Many try AA and leave it finding it too harsh. There are many reasons to not like AA meetings, drunkalogs with people detailing lists of psychotic or sociopathic behavior. The "leaders" who lack good character who can be dictatorial, unfeeling and impatient with new people, there is quite a bit of variability in these groups and quality of meetings. In some ways the bottle is a replacement for the woman, the warm fuzzy feeling you get when in love can in some sense be approximated with substances and drinks.

I am personally opposed to any drug use, it's frankly against my Christian beliefs where physical solutions are natural healing and reliance on God, come what may, no matter how painful life becomes, trusting God while relying on good people for help. We shouldn't be like the man in the parable of the drowning man on a rooftop who keeps saying that God will save him and answer his prayers while rescuers are coming by that he waves away.

Psychedelics can be very dangerous, our minds and bodies are intricate, in some ways the delicate mechanisms in our brain are like a swiss watch, reliant on the interactions of all their parts. I heard of a guy in the program whose sponsor tried a psychedelic drug to get "unstuck". He ended up in the psych ward and the fellow called him up, answering, he said "....how did you get my number?" I have a friend, "Sam" who tried psychedelics, Ayuhuasca I think, and became more flaky than ever, wanting to live only in pure immediacy, not planning or managing his large farm property. Storm damage took out the power line to his house, and he's stayed off the grid since 2021 or so, firing up his generator when he needs to flush his plumbing, etc..
 
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I genuinely feel people give up on drink too easily.

I used to smoke loads of dope and drink to excess, to the point it was detrimental to work.

So I gave up on the dope, which caused forgetfulness and sloth, but gradually got my drinking under some sort of control, till on a school night I can keep it to 4 decent glasses of wine of an evening.

It’s a real treat and a reward for a day of effort.
I have a set of rules, nothing before 6pm, nothing after 9pm

The thought of living without a drink is awful, no escape from reality.
 
I drink quality IPAs usually, probably too much from time to time. A friend asked me why? I said it takes the edge off of things late in the day. I don't want to need something like that, but enjoy it and be able to say when I have the urge, "no, not today".
 
I don’t torment myself with worrying about needing it, I suppose if a doctor told me I could never have another drink, or France became an Islamic theocracy and I had to stop I could.
But in the meantime once the sun is over the yardarm, it’s a glass of crisp cold white for me.

My brother has a month a year off the sauce.
Different strokes I suppose.
 
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