And another "problem" with gloves. They cater to the ends of the spectrum with regards to their uses. On one end you have sticky and thin, good for climbing. Other end you have thick and much less sticky, good for ground work. Neither really good ones in their realm are good for inclement weather. That's why we have so many pairs! Btw IMO...kinko's rule the realm, don't forget to sno seal the bejeezem out of em. Just picked up this seasons worth of them. If you know kinko's and you think you found a better cheaper pair, let's hear it.