SRT to DdRT Changeover

M

mpriley02

I do a lot of ascension on SRT, whether the line is choked around the TIP or it runs over it and back down to an anchor. I use a handled ascender up top tethered to my harness, a friction hitch at my waist, and a pantin on my foot. Once I'm up, I take the ascender and pantin off the rope and switch over to DdRT using a friction hitch.

What I would like to know is if I can use a Grigri, I'd or Eddy in place of my friction hitch - I know I can use it on the ascent, but can I completely replace my hitch with one of these to use as a work positioning device while climbing DdRT?
 
You can... but they weren't designed for it and don't work worth a darn in that configuration. Eddy and Grigri are better off used for SRT positioning. The i'D is superior in SRT positioning to Eddy and Grigri, if you ask me. Stick to a hitch or lockjack for DdRT.
 
Just to let you know. I was our comp today, and in the Master's, someone ascended the same way you describe. After his climb though, they checked his set-up again, and had a big discussion about the friction hitch at the waist. They said if the ascenders we're to fail, they would slid down the rope, taking your friction hitch with it. Just a thought
 
Any of the three will work well on SRT in a RADS setup.

I don't know why you couldn't use them in a DdRT setup though. The catch is that in order to go back up a tensioned rope in free air you'll have to piggyback an upper ascender to make a really clunky RADS over DdRT. If you knew that you were always going to have your legs on a limb/trunk you could try them w/DdRT but I think you'd be very frustrated.

EDIT: After reading Phil's point in a post below I'm rethinking my idea about using a FH for a lower attachment. This next paragraph is my original position.

Using a friction hitch as a lower attachment in SRT makes little sense. At a minimum a Microcender or similar device should be used. Using a chest ascender for a lower attachment has been used for decades and has a proven track record. The only reason that I've heard to use a hitch is that it costs nothing. The potential safety compromises don't make that a viable arguement...to me anyway. <font color="purple"> </font>
 
ive used the grigri before in place of a friction hitch but i agree with TL, its a bit bouncy, but its nice to use in a pinch, i also agree with tom that its great to use in a rads system, its cheaper than the eddy and other mechanical descenders too

i also agree that you should probably look to switch over to a mechanical ascender on your waste, they move smoothly and dont have too many problems grabbing back onto the rope the second you stop ascending, im a big fan of the petzl chest ascender but ive also used a microcender, both work well but the chest ascender takes less time to disengage
 
Yes hitch should be over device for that reason. i like SRT ascent, to highest point or near. All ways use choked to TIP for less load on TIP and less bounce (because of less loading and less rope elasticity as 2 different categories now better). If i'm not climbing to TIP while SRT, i'd install a DBY with krab on rig line, and then that to running bowline on TIP. Then SRT to destination, lock off with lanyard) and use rig line to pull open/down running bowline from TIP. Then, take Kong off, and bring hitch down to waist. Retie running bowline to scaffold, already have rig line, and your set.

So, use a long bridge with krab on end for Kong and hitch, then just hook that krab with bridge still attached directly to saddle (with bridge folded in half now). i retie hitch, for it was a long legged Schwab b4(with Kong as tender) now the leg length comes into a version of Icicle, and have short legs for working. i skip that step if i just need hitch for descending after ascending. But if it needs tending upwards, i go with my version of something between Icicle and Sailor's Gripping Hitch, using flat 3/8 Tenex. If i don't make change and need to work around and up, i all ways regret it. Flat rope gives less dimension on the bent axis(as long as that deformation isn't across width of flat), so is not leveraged weaker as much by bend like round by the tight bight.
 
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i also agree with tom that its great to use in a rads system, its cheaper than the eddy and other mechanical descenders too

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In order, my preferences for the lower tool in RADS:

Eddy
I'd
Grigri
 
I understand the theory that if the ascenders fail and you have a friction hitch at waist, the ascenders have the possibility of compressing the hitch resulting in a decent.

I don't see how it would actually happen though. Let’s say the hand ascenders fail. How much do they actually weigh? I doubt its enough to collapse the friction hitch under their own weight.

If the climber is still holding onto the ascenders and forcibly pulls them down after they break, then maybe it would move the hitch down some. How far will the hitch actually descend though?

If the climber is wearing a pantin and it’s still attached to the rope after ascender failure, won't that prevent the hitch from going past the height of his foot?

When a climber is on a single line and places all of their weight on a friction hitch, the hitch is twice as tight as when it’s in a ddrt setup, making it much harder to compress.

Let’s say a climber ascends on srt with a friction hitch at waist height. At some point during the ascent they encounter a beehive and decide to descend. They can unclip the ascenders and descend with the friction hitch in a convenient location right in front of their face. If the hitch was above the ascenders, it may be out of arms reach when the climber is sitting on the line.

Let’s say the friction hitch is above the ascenders and the ascenders fail, the climber will fall the length of the tether shocking the line. If the hitch is at waist height, the fall distance is minimal.

I know there are many variations on setting up srt. I use a friction hitch at waist because I can descend on it if I need to, as I push up on the ascenders it lifts the hitch via a micro mouse pulley, when I get to the top, I already have my friction hitch tied reducing the possibility of dropping things during a changeover to ddrt. I have tried to use the hitch above the ascenders but had real problems with ascenders pushing it up consistently. The hitch was also always in a state of compression from never having weight on it during the ascent, so if the ascenders do fail, the hitch may not grab for a distance.

I would like to see someone actually test what the effect of failing ascenders on a hitch at waist height would be. Would they collapse a hitch under their own weight or while being pulled down by the climber? Let’s see some evidence before we say what will happen.
 
Having a friction hitch above the upper ascender is one of my least favorite configurations. You laid out some of my concerns Phil. The biggest issue is that some event could happen that could cause the hitch or ascender to fail. Since the two are so close together the chances are higher that a single event could cause both to fail. A chest ascender or some lower ascender seems to make more sense to me.

You've also got a good point about being able to descend in case of an emergency. I'm rethinking my position on a FH for a lower...hmmmm.
 
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The catch is that in order to go back up a tensioned rope in free air you'll have to piggyback an upper ascender to make a really clunky RADS over DdRT

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Would you have to use RADS? It wouldn't really be any different than climbing on a hitch, right? I normally just put my pantin back on the rope and walk back up.

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as I push up on the ascenders it lifts the hitch via a micro mouse pulley, when I get to the top, I already have my friction hitch tied reducing the possibility of dropping things during a changeover to ddrt.

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That's my main reason. All I have to do is pull the slack thorugh the line, tie my termination knot, and I'm set to go.
 
For the guys using their hitch, do you find the tether from your ascender to your waist interfere with the hitch's ability to bite the rope if need be?
 
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you still fighting fires?

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Yup. I'm at work right now...

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For the guys using their hitch, do you find the tether from your ascender to your waist interfere with the hitch's ability to bite the rope if need be?

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No. I have them on two seperate biners. They really never touch.
 
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