Splices v Sewn - eye2eye prusik cords - Debate

[tuttle]

Wanted to offer a debate on the sewn v spliced cords.

Recently the sewn splice has moved into the main stream, and the scare mongers have been out in force at shows damning the skilled splicers - without any knowledge themselves. (bar red tape)

I will post pics shortly of splices that that I have tested and show the compressed force which the fibres are under.

I am a fan of stitching, but on 8mm and 10mm eye2eyes, its the neatness that matters.

Will the hand splice prevail? or will or will we suffer at the hands of mass production once again?

 

[oceans]

In regard to hitches, a stitched eye gives more useable (flexible) length of hitch cord without the bulk of a knotted end. In certain configurations, this can mean a more responsive hitch, with less sitback than that of a hand spliced eye. I also like how a pair of 8mm stitched eyes can sit inside the frame of a Pinto pulley, which is most likely not possible with 8mm hand spliced eyes.

The stitching method also allows an eye to be created on a line that cannot be spliced otherwise, which opens up many possibilities.

I think the X-Man would also appreciate hand splicing due to the nature of his rigging ring configurations. The E2E (or Ring to Ring) configuration used as an adjustable prusik on the retrievable rigging sling requires a hand splice to cinch into the groove of the ring properly. That would be dodgy at best with a stitch.

Beyond prusiks~

On a 16 or 24 strand climbing line, I think I prefer a hand spliced eye for it's symmetry and compact nature. Hand splicing is also great for certain ropes in endless loop configurations, or for dead-eye rigging slings built from hollow braid.

I appreciate both, and see the need for both depending on the application.

 

[DBT]

I run a splicing company in NZ and totally see the advantage in stitched e2e's, and dynamic lanyards etc. For main line ropes and double braid/16 strand lanyards, i feel hand splices win 10/10. for rigging gear i think hand splices win 10/10. There is room for both. I havent spliced a hitch cord in probably a year and prefer knots over splices on 8mm, yeah it looks bulky but just works better. The stitching has the advantage of size and less bulk. I also think on ropes above 11mm the stitching looks bulky and cheap. But under 10mm it looks the business.

 

[tuttle]

I know that stitching has it place.

My 8mm splices have very stiff legs to 1", so that acts as a push to the hitch, so there is v.little sit back.

 

[DBT]

whats with the writing on the black heat shrink?

 

[tuttle]

Its dating and lot numbers, standard on the wrap, helpful for id.

 

[NickfromWI]

I like spliced hitch cords. Tuttle put it well by saying the stiffness of the spliced "pushes" the hitch. I have little to know sit back on my hand spliced 8mm beeline.

Neither will prevail. The past 5 years have shown an influx of climbers interested in splicing. At the same time we've seen the stitched eyes become more commonplace. As the machines that do the stitching become cheaper and cheaper, the cost of the stitched eyes will also drop. Hand splices will hold steady more or less.

 

[EJDMurray]

I think the growth of splicers on social media, will keep pushing splicing forward i could imagine learning splicing before the help of guys such as yourselves filming and explaining the steps involved would have seemed pretty daunting to alot of people.

 

[Worthaug]

Plus, it's a craft and you should support your talented honeys. Hand splices rule!

 

[oceans]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, it's a craft and you should support your talented honeys. Hand splices rule!

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised if hand stitching became more and more popular. It can also be a craft, in my opinion. Look at 'moss' as an example. He's properly tested and documented his entire process and produces some beautiful work. He isn't doing it for profit, but I imagine he could. I'd fly a hitch he stitched anytime.

...and yes...support your local talent.

 

[tuttle]

Yep, hand stitching is a way forward, I just think that machine stitching is a bit of an up front thing, lots of thin thread being over lapped and lapped, putting strain on the cover and core.

Hand stitching is more accurate, and the compression of the rope adds the strength IMO.

Threads I use range from 80kgs to 300kgs mbs, using polyester, dyneema, dacron and nylon.

I have unpicked machine stitching on webbing and ropes with just quick slice of a stanley blade.

 

[itterada]

I wouldn't go so far as I say that hand stitching is more accurate. Unless there are people out there that can recreate a perfect stitch pattern by hand, I don't see how you could eyeball or even measure out a pattern to the exacting level of precision that a properly calibrated sewing machine will produce.
That's just my experience though, could be wrong.


And I'm not saying that hand sewing is inferior to machine sewing simply because it's less accurate- the break tests indicate that similar strengths can be reached through both methods- but accuracy is one point that I would give to the machines. Just my 2 cents.

 

[DBT]

it should be impossible to cut the stitching with one swipe-once you remove the cover strands you see the internal stitching and there is now way i can see how youd cut it bro or at least cut it any easier than plain cutting the rope. and hand stitching would be exact the same surely?

 

[tuttle]

@irrerada

The skill is tools and stitch patterns, I used to own inflatable bouncy castles, and hand repaired them on site.

If you just for a moment think back in time to the invention of the needle and the fact that sailmakers are stitching sails to cope with very high pressures, and have done for a millenia.

@DBT


Look at my picture, this method is completely lock stitched, the cord used is 180lb nylon. I stitch them approx 8cm.

I have tested these with just 2 or 3 stitches, at different points i.e. only one side etc.

I have also cut through strands and put 500kgs pull on them, and they still hold.

 

[itterada]

Right, and like I said I'm not debating the skill involved in hand sewing or the ability to get good results. I'm just saying that if a machine were to sew that same sail, a couple millennia later, the pattern would show greater accuracy because it is a machine designed to recreate a pattern. That was pretty much much all I was arguing.

 

[DBT]

done be so defensive bro! i was just saying that machine stitching should not be able to be cut easily at all-theres a stitching machine where i splice so i see quite a bit of it.ive hand stitched for myself but would never consider selling it to anyone, for me theres too much chance of it not being the exact same every time-but thats just my opiniion. Good luck with it all.

 

[moss]

Thanks for the endorsement Oceans. I hand stitched eyes on my climbing rope and hitch cords just to see if it could be done well, it can be done well. It's more labor intensive than splicing. I just bought a machine stitched hitch cord, I expect it should be more consistent per eye than what I can hand sew.

As far as cutting the stitching goes, it all should be covered with heavy duty shrink plastic anyway. If so it would be more cut resistant at the stitching than your climbing rope or hitch cord.
-AJ

 

[Worthaug]

just noticed my typo... I meant "homeys" not honeys

 

[Marden]

On a similar note, what do you think about using a sewing machine for lock-stitching splices versus hand stitching them ?

 

[GeorgeR]

Personal preference makes me lean towards stitching in my eye to eye's; that said I have used knots on the last two hitch cords I've burned up. It's just cheaper to buy the material by the foot.

Although I have started to practice my hand stitching following Moss's guidelines, going to get a few pieces ready for breaking over the holidays.