Spliced bull-rope ends: can you just use the eye to cinch-down logs when negative rigging?

[eyehearttrees]

I just spliced a 4" soft-eye onto my bull rope to go knotless and quickly found I'm low on slings for wrapping logs (that I'd clip my bull-rope to...what are such log-wrapping slings called?), also found it's absurdly easy/convenient to simply toss the soft eye around a log and use a 'biner to clip it back onto itself, cinching-down the log.... Is this OK for the splice? If yes, is it still OK if I'm shock-loading it?

Was/am very psyched about how big an improvement Knotless is but didn't have sufficient log-slings, had made a "speedline-type" kit of 6 loops (8.5k cordage, heard round>web for this use), have some 1" nylon webbing loops, but none of that is sufficient for single-sling connections (ie I'd always have to use two of them), for taking real loads I've got 1 dedicated log-sling of value a 5/8TEC eye&eye (~2.5' long) So any suggestions on what to make for log-wrappin' would be appreciated, going to order 5/8 TEC to make another 2.5' so I have a heavy-duty pair, probably make a 4' pair as well, and thinking to get 3/4 or 7/8 to make an Ultrasling at like 6' to have as 'main/default log-wrapper'....any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated
[edited-in: Am also thinking it's probably wise to get like 10-15' long section of TEC, left un-spliced just tapered ends or a single soft eye, for getting ALL slack out when necessary, just realized that a kit of fixed-length loops, and a fixed-pockets Ultra, aren't going to let me get full-taut connections from bull-rope ----> wood]

(FWIW/PS- I'm setting things up under the understanding my anchorage should be stronger than my bull rope which should be stronger than my log-slings, ie failure should be at the log-sling///bull-rope connection....so I base anchors on 2X19k, bull rope is of course 19k even, and see slings as "can approach 19k but anything over isn't helping", hoping that's on-point so far as 'matching' and weak-point-management!!)

 

[eyehearttrees]

Oh and I know this isn't appropriate subforum for this Q but since it's same topic...

I've seen people using generic steel 'bow shackles' for rigging-hardware, are they using specialty stuff or are regular stainless steel shackles acceptable? Stuff like this:

Husky 3/4 in. Bow Shackle Tow Hook 54535 - The Home Depot

Upgrade and equip your vehicle space with the addition of this excellent Husky Bow Shackle. Perfectly made up and maintain.

www.homedepot.com

Just curious as I'm in need of more steel hardware, only have a few 25kN ISC ovals, when getting more I see the prices fly up if you want 50kN which makes me think "just buy more of the 25kN ovals at $8 and double-up when needed", curious what kind of connecting-hardware you guys are using / recommending

(gotta say, instinctively, that I'd go w/ that steel shackle over any aluminum hardware up to 125%
of that thing's rated strength...if anyone's got easy-to-understand links on yield-strengths/fracture strengths to expand on why steel is superior for dynamic work I'd love to see it/them!)

 

[chiselbit]

We’ve been liking the CMI shackles that have the little retainer similar to a Quickie

 

[Reach]

I just spliced a 4" soft-eye onto my bull rope to go knotless and quickly found I'm low on slings for wrapping logs (that I'd clip my bull-rope to...what are such log-wrapping slings called?), also found it's absurdly easy/convenient to simply toss the soft eye around a log and use a 'biner to clip it back onto itself, cinching-down the log.... Is this OK for the splice? If yes, is it still OK if I'm shock-loading it?

Was/am very psyched about how big an improvement Knotless is but didn't have sufficient log-slings, had made a "speedline-type" kit of 6 loops (8.5k cordage, heard round>web for this use), have some 1" nylon webbing loops, but none of that is sufficient for single-sling connections (ie I'd always have to use two of them), for taking real loads I've got 1 dedicated log-sling of value a 5/8TEC eye&eye (~2.5' long) So any suggestions on what to make for log-wrappin' would be appreciated, going to order 5/8 TEC to make another 2.5' so I have a heavy-duty pair, probably make a 4' pair as well, and thinking to get 3/4 or 7/8 to make an Ultrasling at like 6' to have as 'main/default log-wrapper'....any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated
[edited-in: Am also thinking it's probably wise to get like 10-15' long section of TEC, left un-spliced just tapered ends or a single soft eye, for getting ALL slack out when necessary, just realized that a kit of fixed-length loops, and a fixed-pockets Ultra, aren't going to let me get full-taut connections from bull-rope ----> wood]

(FWIW/PS- I'm setting things up under the understanding my anchorage should be stronger than my bull rope which should be stronger than my log-slings, ie failure should be at the log-sling///bull-rope connection....so I base anchors on 2X19k, bull rope is of course 19k even, and see slings as "can approach 19k but anything over isn't helping", hoping that's on-point so far as 'matching' and weak-point-management!!)

We did this for years, with great success. I recommend adding a half hitch on the piece as well, on anything of size, to reduce the load on the splice, and to reduce point loading the carabiner-rope junction.

 

[eyehearttrees]

We’ve been liking the CMI shackles that have the little retainer similar to a Quickie

Will google them real quick but it'll just be to confirm they're 10X what a comparable shackle for any other industry would cost (lol now I'm wondering if I could get nickel or some super-metal shackle, meant for regular-use, for the price of a good arborists'-shackle jk stainless steel is plenty appropriate and I'd be hesitant to switch away from a material I'm familiar w/ in fact the more I learned on steel//aluminum-alloys the more steadfast I became in using a steel biner in my primary hitch to my line which is an 8.5k/3.5% line[Mercury] so should be able to snap my body in half before equipment-failure on a nasty fall!)

I have an old steel shackle from harbor freight that I'd trust the metal on, but not the threading (wanna see at least a lil pass-through/extrusion through the threaded-side when it's hardly a half-dozen threads wide!)

 

[eyehearttrees]

We did this for years, with great success. I recommend adding a half hitch on the piece as well, on anything of size, to reduce the load on the splice, and to reduce point loading the carabiner-rope junction.

Ooh what about specialty 'biners that "arc" at the tops&bottoms of their spines? Someone's gotta make something like that right? (picture taking a regular 'biner, making it with 2X as much metal on the top&bottom arcs, then "squishing"/compressing those arcs so they're normal 'height' and double-width, the bend-radius on a rope would be far improved...have wanted such a biner before but it wasn't simple/obvious finding one, oddly enough, and forgot about it til now! Can draw a pic if anybody's unclear on what I mean, just 'wide surface' top&bottom carabiner, would have like half a cubic-centimeter more metal to make the wider top&bottom arcs and shaped for curvature on rope)

LOVE your idea and feel moronic I didn't think of it, am telling myself I'd surely have thought of it upon my 1st real session w/ this setup (just spliced that the other day / still need to lock-stitch ), yeah that's the answer or "/thread" as the kiddies say or rather it will be if I'm sure I'm getting you--- confused a lil because, in such a configuration, would we even care about point-loading even a little bit? When you do a traditional half+ setup, failure is overwhelmingly a half-hitch issue not a bowline issue it's the half taking the hit and failing when you test-to-fail.... This is *even better* for my kit/intents then because I'll use my old idea of threading a large o-ring onto the tip of my bull-line before affixing to the log so that, at the normal half-hitch position, I can pass the rope through that o-ring instead of usual rope-on-rope Half Hitching en route to terminus which'd now be a superior cinched-splice instead of bowline!! Weak/fail spot should still be the o-ring // polydyne interface (where a half-hitch would've been), but now that #ABS is higher than in my old configuration of just knots and, of course, I'll be using easily-replaced&inspected TEC slings whenever possible, perfect thanks again for posting that is a great setup hell I could slide 2 o-rings for an even stronger "system-weak-point" although that's beyond overkill heck most of this setup is overkill, goal is overkill-strength w/ highest convenience am stoked to be doing this post-2013 ie after friction/ringed rigging became state of the art

 

[colb]

I had a piece come out of a girth hitch while negative block speedlining earlier in my career. I was fortunate that the repair involved replacing two obliterated octagonal pavers rather than a glass porch roof. When a negative blocked piece comes off the stem, there is no tension on the girth hitch. There is just the friction of the rope on rope, and rope on wood. In my case, the girth hitch slipped open it and the log came out of rigging. The piece had multiple branch nubs, so there was plenty for the tenex sling to catch on. It just did not catch.

Since then, I have always put a half hitch on when negative blocking.

You'll see @Stihlmadd do up his eucs with a half hitch on branches that are sorta negative blocked/sorta at the rigging point, presumably since eucs are slippery AF. In my area, I would do the same for some species (Carolina laurel cherry, sugarberry) on a rainy day. hth.

 

[Reach]

Ooh what about specialty 'biners that "arc" at the tops&bottoms of their spines? Someone's gotta make something like that right? (picture taking a regular 'biner, making it with 2X as much metal on the top&bottom arcs, then "squishing"/compressing those arcs so they're normal 'height' and double-width, the bend-radius on a rope would be far improved...have wanted such a biner before but it wasn't simple/obvious finding one, oddly enough, and forgot about it til now! Can draw a pic if anybody's unclear on what I mean, just 'wide surface' top&bottom carabiner, would have like half a cubic-centimeter more metal to make the wider top&bottom arcs and shaped for curvature on rope)

I get the concept, but I have never seen such a biner. We always used regular steel biners, because they worked. Perhaps you could make the first “rigging specific” biner?

 

[eyehearttrees]

I had a piece come out of a girth hitch while negative block speedlining earlier in my career. I was fortunate that the repair involved replacing two obliterated octagonal pavers rather than a glass porch roof. When a negative blocked piece comes off the stem, there is no tension on the girth hitch. There is just the friction of the rope on rope, and rope on wood. In my case, the girth hitch slipped open it and the log came out of rigging. The piece had multiple branch nubs, so there was plenty for the tenex sling to catch on. It just did not catch.

Since then, I have always put a half hitch on when negative blocking.

You'll see @Stihlmadd do up his eucs with a half hitch on branches that are sorta negative blocked/sorta at the rigging point, presumably since eucs are slippery AF. In my area, I would do the same for some species (Carolina laurel cherry, sugarberry) on a rainy day. hth.

What's "hth"?
And wowzers that must've got the heartrate up, thankfully it missed their porch/greenhouse roof!!

I find myself defaulting to the half-hitch 1st on most cuts even stuff that most would've just tied a bowline/no half-hitch, just feel "right" but I'd associated that feeling more with "stable grip" on the log IE the log does less violent rolling/re-positioning inside its bull-rope tethering, hadn't considered a full slip/loss but now that you've put the image in my head I'll most-definitely not do single-ties (so glad you'd posted, thanks a ton, the timing is great as I probably would've been defaulting to only a clipped-around girth for anything ~200lbs and under now that I can so easily toss-around the eye & clip it to itself, will always do half-hitches first now!)

Can't help wonder if that could've been over-come (your dropped/lost piece) if the bull-rope were kept taut during the cut? IE if the groundie pre-tensions the line before you cut it, wouldn't that keep it taut-enough for it to hold during that "in-between" period from cut to slide? (am NOT saying I'd see it as "ok my groundie's resolved that problem", still want the safety of a half-hitch unless I'm choking onto a real crotch it can't let go of, just thinking pre-tension may be enough to have remedied that scary afternoon when yours slipped!)

 

[eyehearttrees]

I get the concept, but I have never seen such a biner. We always used regular steel biners, because they worked. Perhaps you could make the first “rigging specific” biner?

I actually do smelt/cast aluminum in my backyard, or have, but I couldn't make a form remotely that precise Maybe Dave Driver could fab them to make an accessory 'speedline kit' if/when he relaunches XAS(or operations, can't recall his specific intent - had emailed him, don't wanna imply I know him!)

Glad you got/visualized what I'd meant, was afraid I wasn't wording properly, sucks you've never seen one I mean I guess I'd think such a shape would be a very obvious logical progression for a manufacturer especially when the pulley-carabiners(Rollclip, Revolvers), am truly surprised that a "rope friendly top&bottom" slider-biner doesn't exist!

 

[colb]

What's "hth"?
And wowzers that must've got the heartrate up, thankfully it missed their porch/greenhouse roof!!

I find myself defaulting to the half-hitch 1st on most cuts even stuff that most would've just tied a bowline/no half-hitch, just feel "right" but I'd associated that feeling more with "stable grip" on the log IE the log does less violent rolling/re-positioning inside its bull-rope tethering, hadn't considered a full slip/loss but now that you've put the image in my head I'll most-definitely not do single-ties (so glad you'd posted, thanks a ton, the timing is great as I probably would've been defaulting to only a clipped-around girth for anything ~200lbs and under now that I can so easily toss-around the eye & clip it to itself, will always do half-hitches first now!)

Can't help wonder if that could've been over-come (your dropped/lost piece) if the bull-rope were kept taut during the cut? IE if the groundie pre-tensions the line before you cut it, wouldn't that keep it taut-enough for it to hold during that "in-between" period from cut to slide? (am NOT saying I'd see it as "ok my groundie's resolved that problem", still want the safety of a half-hitch unless I'm choking onto a real crotch it can't let go of, just thinking pre-tension may be enough to have remedied that scary afternoon when yours slipped!)

I think the only systems that a groundie could pretension are a rignwrench or a hobbs, or good old "hold my beer" lowering... I think I was using a portawrap that day. It was an infrequently-used setup for me - speed line negative block with 9/16" terminated on the spar and a 3/4" tenex eye sling with an x ring on the other end. The tenex eye was girth hitched around the piece and the xring was on the 9/16". I negative blocked it in the opposite direction of the speed line to let the initial forces line up better with the spar. Unfortunately, that direction was also towards the house...

 

[colb]

What's "hth"?
And wowzers that must've got the heartrate up, thankfully it missed their porch/greenhouse roof!!

I find myself defaulting to the half-hitch 1st on most cuts even stuff that most would've just tied a bowline/no half-hitch, just feel "right" but I'd associated that feeling more with "stable grip" on the log IE the log does less violent rolling/re-positioning inside its bull-rope tethering, hadn't considered a full slip/loss but now that you've put the image in my head I'll most-definitely not do single-ties (so glad you'd posted, thanks a ton, the timing is great as I probably would've been defaulting to only a clipped-around girth for anything ~200lbs and under now that I can so easily toss-around the eye & clip it to itself, will always do half-hitches first now!)

Can't help wonder if that could've been over-come (your dropped/lost piece) if the bull-rope were kept taut during the cut? IE if the groundie pre-tensions the line before you cut it, wouldn't that keep it taut-enough for it to hold during that "in-between" period from cut to slide? (am NOT saying I'd see it as "ok my groundie's resolved that problem", still want the safety of a half-hitch unless I'm choking onto a real crotch it can't let go of, just thinking pre-tension may be enough to have remedied that scary afternoon when yours slipped!)

Hth = hope this helps