shock loading 1" Stable Braid

flushcut

Well-Known Member
Well, yes it does matter. I have seen dual action roll open while rigging. And that biner looks like it was open at peak force. Maybe there is something I am not seeing in the picture.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
Number of actions doesn't matter. Take any standard locking carabiner, lock it in a vice, gate up. Smash it with a hammer. You will be surprised how little force it takes To get the gate open.

This carabiner smashed against the stem, forced the gate open then was loaded. If you can’t see that happening, then I don’t know how you rig.

I’ll say it one more time. Just tie a knot.

Tony
 

flushcut

Well-Known Member
I can see it happening.
Have you put a biner in a vice and beat it with a hammer?
And I'll say it one more time that biner looked open at peak force. LOL
From your picture it is hard to see where the smashing took place. The locking sleeve doesn't look mangles the pins appear to be intact and it appears to be flat. So to me it looks like it was open and overloaded. But you were there.
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
The weak point strength wise i think would be the thin axle pivot on gate side pulled across it's 'thin axis' .
But in actual usage, this part doesn't mis-align, like the gate opening.
Even, in a straight draw test the slip of the gate of thicker parts gives way before the more continues connection across the much thinner gate pin/axle.
Let alone with side force /smash etc.
rope/twine similarly placed over mouth of hook is called mousing on old ships,
>>it blocks the opening from load coming out and gives some leverage agains hook stretching open, that is all....
.
Best if all force is aligned to channel down the rear spine of carabiner
>>where weaker/compromised gate leg is loaded minimally, so has most leverage back against load
As force line comes towards gate, gate leg has less leverage over load from solid leg as pivot.
.
Best if seam, any seam is not in the hit/main loading wether knot or carabiner.
>>this also leads to more of a Round Turn than Single Turn rope path, in Half Hitch or Marl
>>wherein lienar pull gives a pull along not across the load at hit etc.
Like a lengthwise pull needs a Killick not Timber strategy
>>simarily on lengthwise pul find round sling proper, eye2eye not as simple choke.
A 3 point compressive grab on pole length rather than 1 point, for more positive grab
>>viewing as a maintained linear force from the rope to the load thru turns/arc centers
>>force line from LINEAR force input of hitch point bouncing back and forth between peak of 180arcs to give 3 points in Round Turn or Same amount of 180arcs in Half Preceding noose of Running Bowline/ or running carabiner.
Its in the linear force input to arc peaks for most of the grab;
>>besides the more nominal sideways hug at non peak parts of arc of carrying linear force around thru rope>>look at peak of arc as 3rd point to watch
 
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rico

Well-Known Member
Or we could just take the potential failure of the carabiner out of the equation. Keep it Simple Stupid...
 

flushcut

Well-Known Member
But in the OP's post the biner was not the weak point it was the rope on rope friction that was in question. Has anybody esles seen a rope smashed besides me? Biner or knot rigging gear gets beat up.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
But in the OP's post the biner was not the weak point it was the rope on rope friction that was in question. Has anybody esles seen a rope smashed besides me? Biner or knot rigging gear gets beat up.
I agree that in the OP's case it looks as if rope on rope was the culprit. Regardless my own personal experience has taught me that putting a carabiner in the system when negative rigging bigger stuff is asking for trouble...After a destroyed biner gate or 2 I stopped doing it.....The convenience of the biner just wasn't worth the risk for me.....
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Well, yes it does matter. I have seen dual action roll open while rigging. And that biner looks like it was open at peak force. Maybe there is something I am not seeing in the picture.
I’ve regularly seen where a triple action opens up when load testing base anchors. With a log (or limb) for that matter flopping around in rigging I see little to no place for biners as a choked termination in rigging
 

flushcut

Well-Known Member
Ah yes the biner or no biner knotless rigging debate. I'm not going there. Just looking at a picture on the internet and thinking what happened.
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
There are better choices for knotless setups than a carabiner, if you're going to negative rig.

knotless.jpg

You can slam these things around and gate is almost never tweaked. The gate has nothing to do with the rating of the hook, either. They're also easier on the rope than a 'biner.

Available in sizes for even the biggest rigging needs/ropes. But, don't drop it on your groundie's noggin.
 

RyanCafferky

Well-Known Member
There are better choices for knotless setups than a carabiner, if you're going to negative rig.

View attachment 66108

You can slam these things around and gate is almost never tweaked. The gate has nothing to do with the rating of the hook, either. They're also easier on the rope than a 'biner.

Available in sizes for even the biggest rigging needs/ropes. But, don't drop it on your groundie's noggin.
The bend radius certainly leaves something to be desired. Also that cotter pin catches my eye like it will catch and pull cover strands.
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
i would always take the seam/connection out of any primary/hit loading area
>>except if then stiffer part must be in too tight of arc on small host mount /ratio
Otherwise, present only clean, most solid, uninterrupted line parts as possible to greatest static or hit receiving zone/line part
.
Would take the metal out for several reasons except production or throwing weight in placement in balance. In real loading rope to rope as stated.
.
Lengthwise pull or hold on host, like holding a load with hitch point /pivot not at CoG would need a lengthwise grip, i.e. 3 half 180arcs not 1. 3 arc grip as like Round Sling or Half Hitch preceding Running Bowline vs. 1x180arc grip of eye to eye sling or Running Bowline w/o preceding HH or marl.
.
Such as lesson of Timber Hitch as right angle of pull against host vs. need HH preceding Timber in Killick for lengthwise loading/pull.
 
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