Securing a split oak for removal tomorrow
- Thread starter RBJtree
- Start date
- Location
- God's Country
The only PPE I can see on 4 guys is 1 pair of gloves? Don’t mean to be an ass but dude, really?
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
Meaning subcontractors? If they are employees then OSHA would fine even with a signed document right? Also not trying to be a dick, just curious as to liability. Like those new spurs though, look good and comfy.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I am basically following suit with the policy other tree contractors in my area have. Employees Sign an agreement to wear ppe. If they choose not to, that's on them. In 17 years, I worked for one company that hard hats were mandatory on all jobs. They were a larger company. Everyone else only wears them on contracts where the customer requires them such as government or corporate contracts. I've never seen or heard of OSHA on a residential job site. I would love if everyone wore hard hats, chaps, chain mail... But almost no one around here does that. I don't know if we would be fined if OSHA came to my job site.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Simple..you can't sign off on wearing PPE. It's a Federal Law.
If there were an injury or death you could have negligence issues to deal with in court.
As an employer you're the parent. Employees are children.
If there were an injury or death you could have negligence issues to deal with in court.
As an employer you're the parent. Employees are children.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
So what if I am not on the jobsite and someone decides to take off their ppe? Still negligence on my part?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
My understanding is that OSHA requires employees and employers to be responsible. I've heard anecdotal stories of employees being fined because of their willful disregard for safety rules. There's always the threat of worker's comp not covering injuries because of non-compliance too.
Beyond the concern about OSHA...how would you feel if there were an injury or death because of acknowledged non-compliance? Its bad enough to have accidents...worse when a weasel move leads to an accident.
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
Thank you for your response @RBJtree
ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
Yes.
Set the expectation/requirement. Make it inconvenient if they don't. For example if you show up and a climber is without a helmet, he comes down to get it. Multiple violations = unpaid suspension. Etc..if you won't care neither will they.
The "parent" comparison is good...not a "helicopter" parent, but "I care enough about you to not let you play on the interstate" parent. Care enough about your employees to protect them.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Of course I would feel bad for anyone who gets hurt, but I would not feel it was my fault that they were not wearing ppe. Like I said, I have made the stuff available. They are not children or simpltons, they are adults. I have considered telling them that I changed insurance and they must wear it now or not be allowed to work, its just hard to justify when we have a perfect record of zero injuries ever. I know we are bound to have one someday, its a dangerous job. But like I said, the standard for the companies these guys and myself have worked for in our area is to not enforce ppe requirements. As I grow my company and bring on more people it is my goal to be the absolute best in the business in as many ways as possible. That should certainly include employee saftey.
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
Previous boss was fined 3k for an employee whom was without eye protection chipping. That was over 10 yrs ago by an OSHA inspector who was passing by in rural Maine. I would guess it is more now.
ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
The ropes look like they were a good temporary solution.
As to multiple ratchet straps...if there is enough force to break the top one, is it realistic to expect any below that to hold??? I don't know, but I'd guess not.
Finally...I'd have called the utilities as well. I'd like to think that clients recognize when I'm serving their best interests.
You didn't think of that, but it sounds like you did go out of your way to serve their best interests...so hopefully they recognize you for that too!!!
As to multiple ratchet straps...if there is enough force to break the top one, is it realistic to expect any below that to hold??? I don't know, but I'd guess not.
Finally...I'd have called the utilities as well. I'd like to think that clients recognize when I'm serving their best interests.
You didn't think of that, but it sounds like you did go out of your way to serve their best interests...so hopefully they recognize you for that too!!!
Man you walked right into that didn't ya RBJ? Posting pics & vids with nary a PPE. Jeez, what the fuck were you thinking bro?
- Location
- God's Country
One more post & I'll shut up on this thread...
1. OSHA would absolutely nail you to the wall, waiver or not... in fact you would probably get in worse trouble because you intentionally drew up a waiver to subvert safety protocol.
2. At least put a couple tag lines on the base of that big limb to get the guys away from it. They're practically riding it like a bull & one quick drop by the crane op & their foot is crushed.
3. Like you mentioned, just b/c no one else mandates PPE.. make your company stand out & be more professional than the others.
4.. ATH is correct.. put the straps right next to each other
HAPPY EASTER TO EVERYONE...HE IS RISEN!!
1. OSHA would absolutely nail you to the wall, waiver or not... in fact you would probably get in worse trouble because you intentionally drew up a waiver to subvert safety protocol.
2. At least put a couple tag lines on the base of that big limb to get the guys away from it. They're practically riding it like a bull & one quick drop by the crane op & their foot is crushed.
3. Like you mentioned, just b/c no one else mandates PPE.. make your company stand out & be more professional than the others.
4.. ATH is correct.. put the straps right next to each other
HAPPY EASTER TO EVERYONE...HE IS RISEN!!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Whew...feel bad...is that what you'd say to their family?
Five friends of mine had... "a perfect record of zero"...deaths...until they were killed doing treework.
If you plan on growing your company and being the best why not start right now? Much easier to change on your schedule not from an accident forcing you.
Over the years people have shared safety success stories. Getting the crew into wearing helmets and safety glasses sets them off from the rest of the crews in their area. It can be a selling point for your clients...a way of stepping out of the crowd. Clients will know that safety makes sense even if the other companies in your area don't.
Five friends of mine had... "a perfect record of zero"...deaths...until they were killed doing treework.
If you plan on growing your company and being the best why not start right now? Much easier to change on your schedule not from an accident forcing you.
Over the years people have shared safety success stories. Getting the crew into wearing helmets and safety glasses sets them off from the rest of the crews in their area. It can be a selling point for your clients...a way of stepping out of the crowd. Clients will know that safety makes sense even if the other companies in your area don't.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I have to plead ignorance on not calling the utility company. I usually see these trees after they have fallen. I saw the situation and took action. If I thought the customer could have gotten the tree done for free, I would have told them. I have plenty of work, and I love a challenging job, but not at the unnecessary expense of a person who was unexpectedly hit by a situation beyond their control. I don't know if our local utility company would have done the tree or not, or if they would have gotten there before it split the rest of the way and fell. In hind sight, I could have secured the tree for a small fee and contacted the utility company. That is what I will do next time.
ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
I certainly wouldn't fault you for dealing with the situation in front of you. Obviously they didn't think to call utility either...
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Get Senas in the helmets if you want guys to want to wear them.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I've been considering the sena's. I've seen so many reviews that are bad, and a few good ones. The number of bad reviews has made me hesitate to pull the trigger.
I was wondering if you would be willing to share your waiver of responsibility with me? I want to let my guys dive my trucks drunk and high. That way, WHEN (NOT IF) they kill someone I can just point to my trusty ol waiver. I think I'll be fine. No liability here. After all they are free men. It is not my job to manage my employees. I just let mine do what the fuck ever they want.
I wonder why the cops showed up. Vehicles blocking the entire road, no visible warning devices, no detail, not a stitch of safety gear, and a jobsite that looked like a bunch of homeowners rented a crane... yeah that's a mystery.
As for the companies around you, you are either a part of the problem or a part of the solution. There is, very sadly, still s surplus of ignorant "tough guy" tree guys left in every market. "P.P.E. is for sissys! Itll never happen to me. I'm too good!" So the only logical thing to do must be if you cant beat em join em.
Although you may think I am just being an A-hole, please just reflect on what you aspire to be and what you chose to allow within your company. Every boss sets the tone within the company and you can not complain about what you permit. So when one of your guys suffers a very preventable workplace injury (I'm not wishing it on you. It is merely statistics.) Please just remember that they signed some asinine waiver so it isn't your fault. Make sure you forward a copy of the foolish document to their widow so she will understand why their child doesnt have a parent anymore.
I wonder why the cops showed up. Vehicles blocking the entire road, no visible warning devices, no detail, not a stitch of safety gear, and a jobsite that looked like a bunch of homeowners rented a crane... yeah that's a mystery.
As for the companies around you, you are either a part of the problem or a part of the solution. There is, very sadly, still s surplus of ignorant "tough guy" tree guys left in every market. "P.P.E. is for sissys! Itll never happen to me. I'm too good!" So the only logical thing to do must be if you cant beat em join em.
Although you may think I am just being an A-hole, please just reflect on what you aspire to be and what you chose to allow within your company. Every boss sets the tone within the company and you can not complain about what you permit. So when one of your guys suffers a very preventable workplace injury (I'm not wishing it on you. It is merely statistics.) Please just remember that they signed some asinine waiver so it isn't your fault. Make sure you forward a copy of the foolish document to their widow so she will understand why their child doesnt have a parent anymore.
