Samson double-braid dry ropes for tree climbers

False Hemlock said:
Purchased a 100 ft hank of Samson Dry on a Wes spur clearance deal. Was hard to pass up the opportunity to try it based on past curiosity.

After reading comments here and grossly ignoring the PFAS and chemical exposure potential, I may only give the rope a go on an “extra wet” or snow-slushy day that I climb. Climbing in the PNW, I have accepted being a human moss conglomerate while aloft.

Loss of rope strength while wet has been my only concern, however marginal that loss of strength may be. Curious to see how this rope works but at the same time very hesitant to even use it. I appreciate this thread greatly.

Wax coated rope with bee’s wax may be the product I actually would want to try out. May brainstorm another use for it or sell it after more consideration. Anywho, new here and enjoying the tree buzz! Cheers
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I don’t think anyone here knows definitively if the rope actually contains PFAS.
 
For further clarification, the assumption is based on there not being any known way to achieve the affect without it, so it seems to be a reasonable assumption
 
One needs to be careful of what is said. There are a lot of people outside this site that use what is said here for reference material. Making a statement that a rope contains a harmful chemical without fact based information can lead to hundreds of thousands of dollars lost in sales for the company. Let's not say things that have not been proven to be true. If in fact they do not use PFAS in their ropes, it would be a gross injustice to Samson to say they do, and represent TreeBuzz as a bad source of information for those seeking answers.
 
Shadowscape said:
One needs to be careful of what is said. There are a lot of people outside this site that use what is said here for reference material. Making a statement that a rope contains a harmful chemical without fact based information can lead to hundreds of thousands of dollars lost in sales for the company. Let's not say things that have not been proven to be true. If in fact they do not use PFAS in their ropes, it would be a gross injustice to Samson to say they do, and represent TreeBuzz as a bad source of information for those seeking answers.
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Often, referring to a broad class of chemicals and painting every one as "harmful" isn't really good science frankly anyway, no matter what Canada's whack job environment minister and his band of eco terrorists would have you believe. Case in point - TDI or toluene diisocyanate was used as a hardening agent in auto paints years ago and lots of painters developed asthmas etc. even with supplied air masks. Paints were then reformulated with hardeners like hexamethylene diisocyante or even longer molecules/ higher molecular weight molecules and the cases of asthma have by and large gone, except of course for some atopic/ sensitive individuals. So to paint all "isocyanates" as being bad and banning them as a class would have the effect of removing some really useful stuff from general commerce. Other chemicals, this may not be the case and it's better, if there's a less toxic replacement, to just get rid of them altogether. Chemical health and environmental effects can be molecule (CAS number) specific and as always, the dose (and exposure route) makes the poison!
I think Shadow's comment is really well put.
Cheers.
 
Shadowscape said:
One needs to be careful of what is said. There are a lot of people outside this site that use what is said here for reference material. Making a statement that a rope contains a harmful chemical without fact based information can lead to hundreds of thousands of dollars lost in sales for the company. Let's not say things that have not been proven to be true. If in fact they do not use PFAS in their ropes, it would be a gross injustice to Samson to say they do, and represent TreeBuzz as a bad source of information for those seeking answers.
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While I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of what you’re saying, I feel like the commonality of the information that PFAS is harmful, and the fact that there’s hundreds of extremely similar compounds, none of which have actually been proven to be safe at currently used levels, gives one a REASONABLE point to begin making such assumptions. Most statements can have their meanings altered by recontextualizing them, and without double checking, I seem to remember everybody being very careful with their words here. I don’t think that anyone who was trying to seriously inform themselves would misread what’s been said, and certainly shouldn’t consider a chat thread of random guys on the internet to be any kind of primary source information.

Also, I wouldn’t worry about costing Samson a few bucks; they’re not hurting. My concerns are greatly fueled by the fact that they’ve not been forthcoming about what they use to waterproof the ropes. There’s plenty of chemicals in the group and they can easily state that they don’t use PFAS, or PFOA, or PSOA, or PSOS, that they could be telling the truth and still using a compound that has yet to undergo that type of testing, thereby being allowed to say that it’s a compound thats not been shown to cause harm. I prefer the EU approach, where one can no longer bring a new product to market without first testing to ensure that it is safe to use. I have contacted Samson, and they didn’t want to give me any details; only assure me that it’s all good. Teflon was also considered safe to use for cooking for a real long time, and now it’s not, but they still sell it. 3M is losing billions as they cease manufacturing the most known of these chemicals, but they’re only the OGs and others will take their loss as an opportunity (lookin at you China).

They have no reason to hide what chemical they’re using. It doesn’t matter if everyone else starts making dry treated ropes for arborists, they’re old technology that has been in use in climbing ropes for many years. Ropes have existed for thousands of years, and yet there are still new people getting into manufacturing, so there must still be money to be made as long as you produce a good product.
 
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My point was this. How many times have you looked for some information and found it on a discussion thread? Such as, you just bought a used Stihl 123XP chainsaw and need to know what the max RPM setting is. You type it in google and an arborist thread comes up with a portion of that thread where someone is telling someone else what the max RPM setting of that saw is. You jot it down and close out of the search. You got your information, and you never read all of the thread because you didn't need to. Now, let take this scenario. You are thinking about buying a Samson Dry rope. You want to know a bit more about it, so you type Samson Dry rope into your search. An option comes up to an arborist site, this one, and you click on it. You see someone in the industry say Samson Dry ropes are coated with PFAS and is dangerous. That person got the information they needed and closes the browser. Now what you have is someone out there who is going to spread that information about. Doesn't matter that Samson has lots of money. They are going to suffer the consequences of misinformation and if and when it is proven Samson does not contain PFAS it will be too late, and TreeBuzz will also be deemed a bad source of information. Neither of those options are good, and it is totally unfair to Samson.
Now if it is found that they do contain PFAS, then say that, but let's not guess.
 
Matias said:
That’s frustrating that they partnered with the Susan Komen Foundation. I really want that rope, but I refuse to give anything to that scummy organization.
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Pretend it is all going to Arbsession then. You get the rope. What they do with their money is of no concern to you.
 
Serf Life said:
Whoa whoa whoa! That’s not the profitable route, just wait 15 yrs and see who gets cancer. It’s always been that way ya know.
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I remember in the 1970’s when the US found that some types of benzidine dyes showed carcinogenic activity and banned them from use in consumer products (carpets), CIBA would just add another side group or side chain and thus were entitled to two more years of sale till that chemical could be banned - finally, fed up I guess, EPA or the CPSC just banned the whole bunch of them as a class. Chemical companies can be such kidders sometimes . . .
 
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Shadowscape said:
My point was this. How many times have you looked for some information and found it on a discussion thread? Such as, you just bought a used Stihl 123XP chainsaw and need to know what the max RPM setting is. You type it in google and an arborist thread comes up with a portion of that thread where someone is telling someone else what the max RPM setting of that saw is. You jot it down and close out of the search. You got your information, and you never read all of the thread because you didn't need to. Now, let take this scenario. You are thinking about buying a Samson Dry rope. You want to know a bit more about it, so you type Samson Dry rope into your search. An option comes up to an arborist site, this one, and you click on it. You see someone in the industry say Samson Dry ropes are coated with PFAS and is dangerous. That person got the information they needed and closes the browser. Now what you have is someone out there who is going to spread that information about. Doesn't matter that Samson has lots of money. They are going to suffer the consequences of misinformation and if and when it is proven Samson does not contain PFAS it will be too late, and TreeBuzz will also be deemed a bad source of information. Neither of those options are good, and it is totally unfair to Samson.
Now if it is found that they do contain PFAS, then say that, but let's not guess.
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But we know they don’t contain PFAS; I asked and they said it doesn’t. You’re example is pretty narrow, and not something that I think will hurt the company in any way that they’d notice. Murphy’s Law tells us that it will probably happen at least once, but if there’s any unaddressed concerns- which there are- then I would continue to encourage folks to err on the side of caution. The opinions of jackasses who take a single comment in a thread and run with it, OUT OF CONTEXT.... well they deserve whatever happens to them. I say this as someone who taught themselves to climb from youtube videos and TreeBuzz threads
 
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