Russia invades Ukraine

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Daniel said:
If you didn't understand and see that one coming... If you didn't know from the get-go that the WMDs story was a complete fabrication designed to sell a pre-determined war to the American people, then include yourself on the list of "suckers".
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2003 I was 15, damn straight I made my mom drive me to the Taunton town center to hold up my sign in protest that baloney Iraq war. Met with a lot of angry motorists… schoolmates… teachers. No wars.
 
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Both Tucker and Trump were very much pro Bush wars while it was happening. neither of them said anything against it until it was a popular stance.
 
treebing said:
Daniel, you seem supportive of Putin marching across international borders with tanks and missiles in this case. Why be against the Iraq invasion and pro Ukraine invasion? Just because its not the USA?
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don't put words in my mouth.. you're making up stories.. no wonder you are so easily fooled when the press feeds you their fabrications.. I AM against all war as an offense to God.
 
treebing said:
https://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/10/cf.opinion.garofalo/. Read this transcript of Tucker defending Bush. Tell me how you could trust anything he says ever?
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Tucker does not report news/facts. His legal defenses have included that - his show is "opinion," not factual, and should not be misconstrued as factual. On a recent on-camera interview he admitted to lying. Something to the effect that he doesn't like to lie, but will if backed into a corner. Most news channels (left and right) do a poor job of helping viewers differentiate between their (allegedly) factual reporting and the opinion shows. Unfortunately, many viewers take anything they see on a news channel as fact, especially when it supports their viewpoint.
 
Dan Cobb said:
The U.S. policies have been and continue to be shaped by the influence of the military industrial complex. The U.S. military spending is more than China, Russia, India, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea and Australia COMBINED. Our politicians are no doubt reliant on the deep pockets of military contractors to meet their huge fundraising targets. (As well as Big Pharma, Big Oil, etc.)

However, any wrongs committed by the U.S. don't make Russia's wrongs right. IMHO, the "but-what-aboutisms" concerning the U.S. have no bearing on the righteousness of Russia's actions.

I do find it interesting that NATO was formed in 1949 to counter the Soviet Union threat, yet after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, NATO continued right along.
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Absolutely, and then President Trump was elected and demanded other NATO countries step up and pay more and the US paying less.
 
Trump did get some of the NATO countries that were in arrears to pony up. However, in typical Trump fashion, he had to grossly inflate the dollar/euro/etc. amounts when talking about it.
 
rico said:
I'm guessing you didn't see Putin's prewar address in which he uses Ukrainian "militarization" and "nazism" as a justification for invading their sovereign nation. If you had you would understand that the madman known as Putin, and Putin alone, is responsible for what might happen next.
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How is that any different than Cheyney falsifying intelligence on WMDs in Iraq. Did you call Bush and Cheyney madmen? Did you march in the streets? Or did you wave your flag and run around calling out "support the troops"? There are a lot of brutal dictators and madmen wreaking havoc in the world. Many of them are puppets of the US government. We supply them with weapons and training as long as they allow our corporations to reap huge profits from exploiting natural resources. They only get attacked when they act outside the financial interests of the monied elites. Now the press is beating the war drums on Putin, much as they did on Sadam Hussein. You guys have short memories.
 
Daniel said:
How is that any different than Cheyney falsifying intelligence on WMDs in Iraq. Did you call Bush and Cheyney madmen? Did you march in the streets? Or did you wave your flag and run around calling out "support the troops"? There are a lot of brutal dictators and madmen wreaking havoc in the world. Many of them are puppets of the US government. We supply them with weapons and training as long as they allow our corporations to reap huge profits from exploiting natural resources. They only get attacked when they act outside the financial interests of the monied elites. Now the press is beating the war drums on Putin, much as they did on Sadam Hussein. You guys have short memories.
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No one here is beating the war drum Daniel. Quite to the contrary. War should not be an option..Instead sanction Russian into the stone ages and eventually the people of Russia will lose their shit and end this small dicked dictators reign of terror..
 
Putin warned the West that any attempt to interfere with Russia's invasion of Ukraine would lead to "consequences never seen." Putin must really be losing his shit because he is starting to sound exactly like Fu*%kface Von Clownstick. Two birds of a feather...
 
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Dan Cobb said:
The U.S. policies have been and continue to be shaped by the influence of the military industrial complex. The U.S. military spending is more than China, Russia, India, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea and Australia COMBINED. Our politicians are no doubt reliant on the deep pockets of military contractors to meet their huge fundraising targets. (As well as Big Pharma, Big Oil, etc.)

However, any wrongs committed by the U.S. don't make Russia's wrongs right. IMHO, the "but-what-aboutisms" concerning the U.S. have no bearing on the righteousness of Russia's actions.

I do find it interesting that NATO was formed in 1949 to counter the Soviet Union threat, yet after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, NATO continued right along.
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Exactly my thoughts. Ukraine is a pawn and the major players is US, Russia, and NATO.
 
Daniel said:
don't take it personally if it doesn't apply.. maybe I should add... and you know who you are. I was strongly opposed to Bush 43 invasion of Iraq. I heard Dick Clarke give a speech right as the WMDs story was falling apart. He was Clinton's terrorism czar and on the Clinton Bush transition team At the first meeting with Bush, Bush asked how long before you can have plans for an attack and invasion of Iraq on the table. That was day 1. The war was pre-planned and scripted. And the media went off beating the war drums universally. Those lies cost 2.4 trillion which is almost twice the entire student debt of this country. That amount of debt threatens the entire economy with collapsing the monetary system. Trump said that invading Iraq was the worst mistake made by any US president, and I AGREE 100%. Yet there wasn't one intelligence officer that lost his or her job. What does that tell you? They didn't lose their job, because they did their job of tricking the people into another war. And still no hearings on where the intelligence went wrong.


If you didn't understand and see that one coming... If you didn't know from the get-go that the WMDs story was a complete fabrication designed to sell a pre-determined war to the American people, then include yourself on the list of "suckers". And what's worse is that you still didn't learn from it. You are easily fooled and tricked into war. Is the US the policeman of the world? Is it our obligation to stand up for Ukraine? NO.. if this turns into a war, it's because it was pre-planned and is making some war profiteers a lot of $$$. And of course, there are secondary benefits to the ruling elites and monied interests, but it's us, the working people that are paying the prices. When the bill comes due, its going to mean cuts in education, social services and health care etc, while the rich get tax breaks and the working man gets screwed.

How about we clean up the mess from the last war before we start another? The deep state, including the intelligence services, are making policy. Just look at Biden. Do you really think that man is running this country? He can barely speak in full sentences. There is no way he has the mental capacity to run this country. So that begs the question well if he's not, who is?
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I agree with your argument on this post, all but one key point. First let me ask you when those war drums started beating for IRAQ what did you do? I know what I did, I got the shit kicked out of me by the cops for shutting a city down to oppose the war. I didn’t stop there.
We as in the US government don’t give a shit about Ukraine beyond strategic purposes against Russia. Who in the hell would want NATO on their doorstep, when you in their sights? NATO broke agreements and promises, the US has done the same, and so has Russia. This is a epic shit show and every party is backed into a corner. I don’t want war, I know our government is in the wrong but at the same time Russia also as in right fucken now bombing the shit out of Ukraine. That just like the never ending wars in the Middle East is what I’m against.
It really fucken sucks that what Ukraine needs is active military support to aid in their defense. No country will step up to the plate. Sure shipping some weapons and a few thoughts and prayers.
The Russian government and people are smart as shit, they are establishing a base 100 miles from the capital on untouchable ground.
This is not going to end well, and Putin is taking advantage of a unique opportunity. Global economic instability, and a polarized populous in every major ‘Western’ nation.
 
rico said:
No one here is beating the war drum Daniel. Quite to the contrary. War should not be an option..Instead sanction Russian into the stone ages and eventually the people of Russia will lose their shit and end this small dicked dictators reign of terror..
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And yet while we are sanctioning Russia, specific banks, and individuals, Putin is personally off that list!

Putin unfortunately doesn’t give a flying F about sanctions. Dude knew that was coming, this is more about picking a fight, a really big fight, unfortunately this is just the prelude to something much larger. I really hope I’m wrong.
If the world stands down, and let’s Russia take Ukraine, Poland is right next door, aka NATO.. Putin kicked a hornets nest, and knows he has Ukraine. What’s next?
 
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treegongfu said:
Does anybody know when this started?

Ww2? Collapse of Soviet Union? Expansion of Nato? Poisoning of Ukrainian leader? Colour revolution? Demonization of Russian speaking half of country? Yesterday?

Does anybody recognize that the country is a strategic prize being used in a US quest for maintaining US domination of Europe and Russia?
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good one.. the screenshot pst NOT THE SONG..

and BTW I marched in DC twice to protest the war.. It felt so good to be with all those like-minded people... I think it was 600K+, but when I got home my girl told me it hadn't made the local news. I was depressed for a couple of weeks after the invasion.
 
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