rope placement while blocking down a trunk
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
I won't try to derail, but how bout a spin off?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch. sometimes this make positioning waaaay easier, especially when using a bigger saw, resulting in better notches..
After you cut the notch, tie the piece off, then move the climb line below the notch but above the block. when everything's set, cut the piece free.
obviously, the main concern is forgetting to move your climbing line down before you cut. kind of a biggy.
thoughts?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch. sometimes this make positioning waaaay easier, especially when using a bigger saw, resulting in better notches..
After you cut the notch, tie the piece off, then move the climb line below the notch but above the block. when everything's set, cut the piece free.
obviously, the main concern is forgetting to move your climbing line down before you cut. kind of a biggy.
thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
I won't try to derail, but how bout a spin off?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch. sometimes this make positioning waaaay easier, especially when using a bigger saw, resulting in better notches..
thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
no derailment here
this is a great way to make the face notch - especially on large or awkward spars. I do it when necessary -
peace,
mk
I won't try to derail, but how bout a spin off?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch. sometimes this make positioning waaaay easier, especially when using a bigger saw, resulting in better notches..
thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
no derailment here
this is a great way to make the face notch - especially on large or awkward spars. I do it when necessary - peace,
mk
TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
I like my lanyard above the block and my lifeline choked lower, and in a position where it cannot be fouled by the block when the load is applied. Gives me the extra security and options if things go wrong
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with with you there pete, I have always tie in like this. It feels so much safer than the 2 tie ins above. Even if the life line is choked above the block with a running bow.
I like to put the life line choked about 10 12 inchs below the block, with figure 8 and my Blakes.
The Sling/Block will not slip down the stem excessively if it is a tightly tied Cow Hitch or a well tightened Whoopee sling.....even on smooth barked trees.
I like my lanyard above the block and my lifeline choked lower, and in a position where it cannot be fouled by the block when the load is applied. Gives me the extra security and options if things go wrong
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with with you there pete, I have always tie in like this. It feels so much safer than the 2 tie ins above. Even if the life line is choked above the block with a running bow.
I like to put the life line choked about 10 12 inchs below the block, with figure 8 and my Blakes.
The Sling/Block will not slip down the stem excessively if it is a tightly tied Cow Hitch or a well tightened Whoopee sling.....even on smooth barked trees.
TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
I won't try to derail, but how bout a spin off?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch.
thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO WAY, I have never done this and never will, it is a totally ridiculous idea that smacks of a lack of common sense.
Scenario ; Your tied in above on your running bow, you start cutting the notch and the tree fails, because you have just cut through the only good wood on the stem, through the cross section of the stem, inline with the 1st cut of the notch there was a large cavity or pocket of decay. But you couldn't see it.
Plus, if you start condoning this idiotic idea then next thing you know bloody idiots who have never thought of it will start cutting the notch with just the one tie in point above the notch. Not even bothering to tie in with their flipline. Oh yeah, and they'll probably forget to undo the tie in point above the notch before they make the back cut.
I won't try to derail, but how bout a spin off?
What about leaving your ART/running bowline at the top of the spar while you make a notch.
thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO WAY, I have never done this and never will, it is a totally ridiculous idea that smacks of a lack of common sense.
Scenario ; Your tied in above on your running bow, you start cutting the notch and the tree fails, because you have just cut through the only good wood on the stem, through the cross section of the stem, inline with the 1st cut of the notch there was a large cavity or pocket of decay. But you couldn't see it.
Plus, if you start condoning this idiotic idea then next thing you know bloody idiots who have never thought of it will start cutting the notch with just the one tie in point above the notch. Not even bothering to tie in with their flipline. Oh yeah, and they'll probably forget to undo the tie in point above the notch before they make the back cut.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in. I feel a lot safer moving around with a chainsaw when I have an overhead tie in. Even if it's only a few feet over head, it still helps a lot.
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in.
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know the wood is sound? all the way through the stem?
Do you have a resistograph? and use it at every point where you make your cuts? even 70 ft up?
If you cut notches using the above tie in technique on a vertical spar you degrade the whole industry.
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in.
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know the wood is sound? all the way through the stem?
Do you have a resistograph? and use it at every point where you make your cuts? even 70 ft up?
If you cut notches using the above tie in technique on a vertical spar you degrade the whole industry.
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in. I feel a lot safer moving around with a chainsaw when I have an overhead tie in. Even if it's only a few feet over head, it still helps a lot.
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in. I feel a lot safer moving around with a chainsaw when I have an overhead tie in. Even if it's only a few feet over head, it still helps a lot.
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
TC
Participating member
Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in. I feel a lot safer moving around with a chainsaw when I have an overhead tie in. Even if it's only a few feet over head, it still helps a lot.
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with you Mahk,
I strongly believe you are wrong.
If you cut a notch on a vertical stem using a tie in point above you, then you are increasing the risk of injury or death to yourself.
I understand that you guys are probably talking about big diam stems, where there is a decreased risk of failure.
Even here though, its the principle that is inherently flawed.
I guess you guys also like this technique, if you can even call it that? because it allows you to create a better work position when using a bigger saw which would otherwise be difficult to handle being tied in round the vertical stem side D to side D?
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit. Therein lies the dilemma of cutting away good healthy wood which is supporting you via your lifeline.
If the stem fails and the top falls down passed you, you are going to be dragged into the stem resulting in potential crush injuries to your spine or internal organs as you will most likely be tied side D to side D.
If you have'nt fallen to your death or and your harness or rope hasn't failed you will be left hanging there in a very dangerous position for you and your potential rescuer and groundperson.
This technique defies logic and rational thinking.
Why would you actively and knowingly cut away part of an organic structure that is directly supporting your weight?
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the wood is sound, I will leave my overhead tie in. I feel a lot safer moving around with a chainsaw when I have an overhead tie in. Even if it's only a few feet over head, it still helps a lot.
I always look up a couple times before even STARTING my back cut, to make sure I did pull the climbing line down.
love
nick
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with you Mahk,
I strongly believe you are wrong.
If you cut a notch on a vertical stem using a tie in point above you, then you are increasing the risk of injury or death to yourself.
I understand that you guys are probably talking about big diam stems, where there is a decreased risk of failure.
Even here though, its the principle that is inherently flawed.
I guess you guys also like this technique, if you can even call it that? because it allows you to create a better work position when using a bigger saw which would otherwise be difficult to handle being tied in round the vertical stem side D to side D?
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit. Therein lies the dilemma of cutting away good healthy wood which is supporting you via your lifeline.
If the stem fails and the top falls down passed you, you are going to be dragged into the stem resulting in potential crush injuries to your spine or internal organs as you will most likely be tied side D to side D.
If you have'nt fallen to your death or and your harness or rope hasn't failed you will be left hanging there in a very dangerous position for you and your potential rescuer and groundperson.
This technique defies logic and rational thinking.
Why would you actively and knowingly cut away part of an organic structure that is directly supporting your weight?
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
You must be reading some interesting books!
Better cuts and less fatigue are not going to help you if you die as a result of using this technique are they?
You must be reading some interesting books!
Better cuts and less fatigue are not going to help you if you die as a result of using this technique are they?
- Location
- Asheville,NC
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Grover, come on, it works. You have your head in the sand.
Grover, come on, it works. You have your head in the sand.
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
I disagree with you No Bivy,
I strongly believe you are wrong.
If you cut a notch on a vertical stem using a tie in point above you, then you are increasing the risk of injury or death to yourself.
I understand that you guys are probably talking about big diam stems, where there is a decreased risk of failure.
Even here though, its the principle that is inherently flawed.
I guess you guys also like this technique, if you can even call it that? because it allows you to create a better work position when using a bigger saw which would otherwise be difficult to handle being tied in round the vertical stem side D to side D?
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit. Therein lies the dilemma of cutting away good healthy wood which is supporting you via your lifeline.
If the stem fails and the top falls down passed you, you are going to be dragged into the stem resulting in potential crush injuries to your spine or internal organs as you will most likely be tied side D to side D.
If you have'nt fallen to your death or and your harness or rope hasn't failed you will be left hanging there in a very dangerous position for you and your potential rescuer and groundperson.
This technique defies logic and rational thinking.
Why would you actively and knowingly cut away part of an organic structure that is directly supporting your weight?
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
I disagree with you No Bivy,
I strongly believe you are wrong.
If you cut a notch on a vertical stem using a tie in point above you, then you are increasing the risk of injury or death to yourself.
I understand that you guys are probably talking about big diam stems, where there is a decreased risk of failure.
Even here though, its the principle that is inherently flawed.
I guess you guys also like this technique, if you can even call it that? because it allows you to create a better work position when using a bigger saw which would otherwise be difficult to handle being tied in round the vertical stem side D to side D?
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit. Therein lies the dilemma of cutting away good healthy wood which is supporting you via your lifeline.
If the stem fails and the top falls down passed you, you are going to be dragged into the stem resulting in potential crush injuries to your spine or internal organs as you will most likely be tied side D to side D.
If you have'nt fallen to your death or and your harness or rope hasn't failed you will be left hanging there in a very dangerous position for you and your potential rescuer and groundperson.
This technique defies logic and rational thinking.
Why would you actively and knowingly cut away part of an organic structure that is directly supporting your weight?
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Grover, no, I don't carry a resistograph up a tree with me. But does anyone EVER when climbing a tree? Following your logic, you shouldn't tie in ANYWHERE without checking it first.
You are right, there are some situations where it would be inappropriate to keep the overhead tie in. But that is what tree climbing is all about. You learn when you can and can not do something. There are times when you shouldn't tie in to a branch of a certain size, but there are times you can. That's what this type of job is all about- knowing when to do something and when not to.
Use the tree to your advantage.
love
nick
Grover, no, I don't carry a resistograph up a tree with me. But does anyone EVER when climbing a tree? Following your logic, you shouldn't tie in ANYWHERE without checking it first.
You are right, there are some situations where it would be inappropriate to keep the overhead tie in. But that is what tree climbing is all about. You learn when you can and can not do something. There are times when you shouldn't tie in to a branch of a certain size, but there are times you can. That's what this type of job is all about- knowing when to do something and when not to.
Use the tree to your advantage.
love
nick
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily.
That's like saying, "if you tie in to a branch that's big enough, then you will also tie to a branch that's too small."
Grover, when you do this, you don't look at if the wood is strong enough to hold you. You look at if the wood minus the hinge will hold you.
Also worth mentioning- there is VERY little force on that overhead tie in when you are immediately below it, as you would be in this case. You have a lot of your weight in the spikes.
Just like anything else, it's safe if you do it right. It's dumb if you do it dumbly (can that be a word).
love
nick
[ QUOTE ]
But if you use this technique on big diam stems you will also use it on thinner stems as well as a force of habit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily.
That's like saying, "if you tie in to a branch that's big enough, then you will also tie to a branch that's too small."
Grover, when you do this, you don't look at if the wood is strong enough to hold you. You look at if the wood minus the hinge will hold you.
Also worth mentioning- there is VERY little force on that overhead tie in when you are immediately below it, as you would be in this case. You have a lot of your weight in the spikes.
Just like anything else, it's safe if you do it right. It's dumb if you do it dumbly (can that be a word).
love
nick
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
I agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like the technique too.
I agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like the technique too.
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Do what you got to do , if the log passes you and you feel a real hard yank , and a blade of grass is getting closer , than you messed up .
Do what you got to do , if the log passes you and you feel a real hard yank , and a blade of grass is getting closer , than you messed up .
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Do what you got to do , if the log passes you and you feel a real hard yank , and a blade of grass is getting closer , than you messed up .
[/ QUOTE ]
You degrade the whole industry with that attitude.
All those years of experience of 'getting away with it'.
Makes you feel invincible, right?
[ QUOTE ]
Do what you got to do , if the log passes you and you feel a real hard yank , and a blade of grass is getting closer , than you messed up .
[/ QUOTE ]
You degrade the whole industry with that attitude.
All those years of experience of 'getting away with it'.
Makes you feel invincible, right?
- Location
- Ontario
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
I thought it was funny Riggs.
Looking for another fight Grover?
WP
I thought it was funny Riggs.
Looking for another fight Grover?
WP
TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
I like the technique too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
Is it just the work positioning aspect of it, or is it easier to hold a saw when tied in overhead?
The thought of using this technique makes my blood run cold.
I like the technique too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
Is it just the work positioning aspect of it, or is it easier to hold a saw when tied in overhead?
The thought of using this technique makes my blood run cold.
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