What's everyone's opinion about root pruning trees of 30+ dbh for lifted side walks? My feeling is its better to remove the tree or do nothing then to root prune and risk it falling over. I don't think my insurance could handle a root pruned tree that fell over during a wind storm (its just not worth the risk).
root pruning large trees
- Thread starter snakeeyes
- Start date
- Location
- Austin, TX
Usually in situations like that, the side walk is goosed anyway. Why not redesign the sidewalk? If it is lifted, it is a trip and fall hazard already.....
I never like to prune roots - move the sidewalk -or- cut her down -or- get a signed release
good article - youch - million bucks, there goes 1/2 my insurance. it sucks trees always loose, and the contractor in this case.
we just put legalize on all our proposals --
XXXXXXX Treecare makes a reasonable effort that their Diagnosis are correct and recommended treatment options are appropriate and applied according to accepted Industry standards. However no warranty is implied or intended.
Trees are living organisms and are constantly changing, Thusly this proposal is subject to change.
The work on this proposal included only a Visual Inspection of acessable components of your tree(s) from the ground. This shall not be considered a tree risk evaluation, risk evaluation involves more extensive inspection and are conducted as a separate work item at an additional charge.
Got this stuff from a lawyer arborist out of california at tcia winter mgmt conference he says everybody should have something like it documented (cuz of lawyers)
/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif
good article - youch - million bucks, there goes 1/2 my insurance. it sucks trees always loose, and the contractor in this case.
we just put legalize on all our proposals --
XXXXXXX Treecare makes a reasonable effort that their Diagnosis are correct and recommended treatment options are appropriate and applied according to accepted Industry standards. However no warranty is implied or intended.
Trees are living organisms and are constantly changing, Thusly this proposal is subject to change.
The work on this proposal included only a Visual Inspection of acessable components of your tree(s) from the ground. This shall not be considered a tree risk evaluation, risk evaluation involves more extensive inspection and are conducted as a separate work item at an additional charge.
Got this stuff from a lawyer arborist out of california at tcia winter mgmt conference he says everybody should have something like it documented (cuz of lawyers)
/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif
- Location
- Madison, Wi
Something similair to the article just happened in Monona, Wisconsin if I am correct, a tree feel over on a guy while he was driving, It ended up killing him. The street that the tree was on had recently had sidewalks redone. There will undoubtedly be a VERY big law suit coming out of this one.
Adam
P.S. what are the odds of a tree falling on a moving vehicle?
Adam
P.S. what are the odds of a tree falling on a moving vehicle?
I've been looking for information on the specifics of root pruning and haven't found much. I understand the risks, but I have a case where pruning may be necessary and the new sidewalk should be far enough away from the trunk that no major structural roots are cut. I have made the argument that it would be better to avoid root pruning and there's a good chance it will kill the trees, but these arguments may be overruled.
I know that it's important to cut roots cleanly and back to a lateral if possible. Some things I've heard or read about concerning root pruning are: preventing the roots from drying out by covering them with wet burlap, using anti-dessicant spray (which sounds like a terrible idea), and applying rooting hormone to stimulate regrowth. I have also read that it is best to prune right before replacing the soil but that might not be possible.
Any suggestions?
Deb
I know that it's important to cut roots cleanly and back to a lateral if possible. Some things I've heard or read about concerning root pruning are: preventing the roots from drying out by covering them with wet burlap, using anti-dessicant spray (which sounds like a terrible idea), and applying rooting hormone to stimulate regrowth. I have also read that it is best to prune right before replacing the soil but that might not be possible.
Any suggestions?
Deb
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
I pruned a 4" sycamore root that was 12' from the 8" dbh trunk just yesterday. That decision was easy; tree should be fine.
Deb the burlap is a good idea but I'm not sure about the hormone and the spray.
Re the article, Abbott is right when he says, "Several courts have held that municipalities' responsibility to protect their citizens and their property includes protecting them from natural hazards, Abbot says. The sovereign immunity defense no longer applies in situations involving fallen trees."
On the rest, Mr. Abbott does a fine job of fearmongering to sell his services. A graduate-level forestry degree has little to do with competence as a tree risk assessor. Volunteers can record data without exposing cities unduly.
This is about a similar case (first published in the ASCA newsletter)--prune roots at your peril!
It was a wet and windy day. Dad sat idling in his SUV in the line in front of the school, waiting to pick up his child. The next time he saw her, he was in the hospital. A gust had toppled a sugar maple, crushing his car and his back. The town’s insurance carrier asked me to determine whether a visual inspection of the tree would have found any defects that could have been acted on. I was also assigned to evaluate the town’s tree risk management policy, and to propose a program of due care of public trees.
The tree had been in the landfill for six weeks before I got the call, so a photograph from the front page of the local paper was digitally scanned and expanded for closer examination. The photograph showed that the roots that lifted out of the soil in a line parallel to the sidewalk were all dark in color. No living root growing toward the sidewalk was evident. This indicated that the cutting of roots and resultant decay during sidewalk replacement resulted in a loss of stability.
Other visible defects included a root repeatedly damaged by the county’s mowers, a canker on the trunk, and an extremely imbalanced crown, weighted entirely over the road. There was no stump to speak of; the tree had been supported by bark and a few strands of cellulose.
I reviewed the site conditions with the public works director, who told me the sidewalk was replaced six years before. Deadwood was pruned a year before the casualty, but since the leaves were in good shape, the tree was judged to be healthy. The town’s tree contractor often phoned in reports of public trees that were in need of maintenance for “safety reasons”; some were removed due to a slight trunk lean. Even though he advertises tree topping, his company appears to be above average for the area.
To determine due care, other towns’ policies were reviewed. Pruning roots when sidewalks are replaced is common, but there was no record of a similar failure. Many towns had a more proactive way of maintaining their green infrastructure, from cities with urban foresters to towns just as poor as this one that made the effort to become Tree City USA’s. Trees and other infrastructure present assets and liabilities to their owners. Considering both together can preserve the value of nonliving elements such as sidewalks, and increase the value of growing elements such as trees.
AFTERMATH
The town’s insurance company reviewed my report, and paid the driver’s claim without question. Sovereign immunity was not asserted; lack of due care was unquestioned. An affordable program of tree management was proposed, and high on the list of changes was methods of sidewalk repair. With the publication of Reducing Infrastructure Damage by Tree Roots ( synopsized by Dr. Costello at the 2004 ASCA conference), towns are looking more at other ways of managing pavement near trees. Creatively merging the green infrastructure with the gray, many strategies for resolving conflicts between mature trees and sidewalks are detailed in this book. In order of impact they are:
1. Remove old panels. Install a new sidewalk of packed stone, asphalt, pervious concrete or concrete curved away from buttress roots.
2. Remove old panels. Bridge buttress roots with packed structural soil and sand under fabric. Install sections of recycled rubber, asphalt, bricks, pavers, pervious concrete or concrete above. (If concrete, reinforce with fiberglass rebar, wire mesh, or standard rebar)
3. Leave heaved sidewalk in place and make the surface smoother by either grinding down the lifted edges or making ramps.
4. Remove old panels, prune roots, and install new panels at original grade.
When liability and replacement cost are factored in, strategies #1-3 cost less, but #4 is still by far the most common in our area. I hope I never get another call like this one, but as long as sidewalk installers cut roots, more losses are inevitable.
Deb the burlap is a good idea but I'm not sure about the hormone and the spray.
Re the article, Abbott is right when he says, "Several courts have held that municipalities' responsibility to protect their citizens and their property includes protecting them from natural hazards, Abbot says. The sovereign immunity defense no longer applies in situations involving fallen trees."
On the rest, Mr. Abbott does a fine job of fearmongering to sell his services. A graduate-level forestry degree has little to do with competence as a tree risk assessor. Volunteers can record data without exposing cities unduly.
This is about a similar case (first published in the ASCA newsletter)--prune roots at your peril!
It was a wet and windy day. Dad sat idling in his SUV in the line in front of the school, waiting to pick up his child. The next time he saw her, he was in the hospital. A gust had toppled a sugar maple, crushing his car and his back. The town’s insurance carrier asked me to determine whether a visual inspection of the tree would have found any defects that could have been acted on. I was also assigned to evaluate the town’s tree risk management policy, and to propose a program of due care of public trees.
The tree had been in the landfill for six weeks before I got the call, so a photograph from the front page of the local paper was digitally scanned and expanded for closer examination. The photograph showed that the roots that lifted out of the soil in a line parallel to the sidewalk were all dark in color. No living root growing toward the sidewalk was evident. This indicated that the cutting of roots and resultant decay during sidewalk replacement resulted in a loss of stability.
Other visible defects included a root repeatedly damaged by the county’s mowers, a canker on the trunk, and an extremely imbalanced crown, weighted entirely over the road. There was no stump to speak of; the tree had been supported by bark and a few strands of cellulose.
I reviewed the site conditions with the public works director, who told me the sidewalk was replaced six years before. Deadwood was pruned a year before the casualty, but since the leaves were in good shape, the tree was judged to be healthy. The town’s tree contractor often phoned in reports of public trees that were in need of maintenance for “safety reasons”; some were removed due to a slight trunk lean. Even though he advertises tree topping, his company appears to be above average for the area.
To determine due care, other towns’ policies were reviewed. Pruning roots when sidewalks are replaced is common, but there was no record of a similar failure. Many towns had a more proactive way of maintaining their green infrastructure, from cities with urban foresters to towns just as poor as this one that made the effort to become Tree City USA’s. Trees and other infrastructure present assets and liabilities to their owners. Considering both together can preserve the value of nonliving elements such as sidewalks, and increase the value of growing elements such as trees.
AFTERMATH
The town’s insurance company reviewed my report, and paid the driver’s claim without question. Sovereign immunity was not asserted; lack of due care was unquestioned. An affordable program of tree management was proposed, and high on the list of changes was methods of sidewalk repair. With the publication of Reducing Infrastructure Damage by Tree Roots ( synopsized by Dr. Costello at the 2004 ASCA conference), towns are looking more at other ways of managing pavement near trees. Creatively merging the green infrastructure with the gray, many strategies for resolving conflicts between mature trees and sidewalks are detailed in this book. In order of impact they are:
1. Remove old panels. Install a new sidewalk of packed stone, asphalt, pervious concrete or concrete curved away from buttress roots.
2. Remove old panels. Bridge buttress roots with packed structural soil and sand under fabric. Install sections of recycled rubber, asphalt, bricks, pavers, pervious concrete or concrete above. (If concrete, reinforce with fiberglass rebar, wire mesh, or standard rebar)
3. Leave heaved sidewalk in place and make the surface smoother by either grinding down the lifted edges or making ramps.
4. Remove old panels, prune roots, and install new panels at original grade.
When liability and replacement cost are factored in, strategies #1-3 cost less, but #4 is still by far the most common in our area. I hope I never get another call like this one, but as long as sidewalk installers cut roots, more losses are inevitable.
- Location
- Lansing, NY
I am now in a project to move big trees do to sidewalk repairs. My boss said to prune roots, but the winds we have had lately have my focus on moving the tree. In these cases we have constant student traffic(both cars& walkers), and the very site of a tree swatting one of them I do not need on my head. In my opion if hazard over rules the prune remove or move the tree.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
I am now in a project to move big trees do to sidewalk repairs. In my opion if hazard over rules the prune remove or move the tree.
[/ QUOTE ]You are right to hold off on the root pruning. You and your boss would do well to look at ALL the alternatives to root pruning and tree moving. there are #1-3 above, and more. The book on Infrastructure Damage costs like $20, far cheaper than moving or removing trees.
If your boss works for a school let's hope that s/he is inclined to get educated before making costly errors. Post a picture if you want more detail.
I am now in a project to move big trees do to sidewalk repairs. In my opion if hazard over rules the prune remove or move the tree.
[/ QUOTE ]You are right to hold off on the root pruning. You and your boss would do well to look at ALL the alternatives to root pruning and tree moving. there are #1-3 above, and more. The book on Infrastructure Damage costs like $20, far cheaper than moving or removing trees.
If your boss works for a school let's hope that s/he is inclined to get educated before making costly errors. Post a picture if you want more detail.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
I've always thought Bonsai was the only time you could successfully root prune a tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Butch, I've come to look at a lot of urban trees as big bonsai. limited rootzones, stunted growth, same principles of management.
I've always thought Bonsai was the only time you could successfully root prune a tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Butch, I've come to look at a lot of urban trees as big bonsai. limited rootzones, stunted growth, same principles of management.
- Location
- Lansing, NY
Well to the project at the campus now we are moving some and doing a structured soil to others.
Depending on the cut and the proximity to the trunk pruning can be done ... sometimes.
a sharp clean cut, similar to what you would do if removing a branch can compartmentalize and even grow epicormics.
When my wife did official bonzai classes they treated pruned roots with Vegemite, so I reckon the same could go for trees ... full of vitamin B.
The worst would be to stump grind them down or hack them off with earthmoving equipment. There is a formula too for how much and how close.
Here's a link to a PDF that everyone should have on their favourites ...
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/uf/utrmm/chptr3_sec4.pdf
a sharp clean cut, similar to what you would do if removing a branch can compartmentalize and even grow epicormics.
When my wife did official bonzai classes they treated pruned roots with Vegemite, so I reckon the same could go for trees ... full of vitamin B.
The worst would be to stump grind them down or hack them off with earthmoving equipment. There is a formula too for how much and how close.
Here's a link to a PDF that everyone should have on their favourites ...
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/uf/utrmm/chptr3_sec4.pdf
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
One thing about trying to cut back to lateral roots - I don't even think about it anymore.
Everytime I've needed to cut a root, there's always been another or several others that would become damaged by trying to go back to any lateral.
Maybe it's time to start raising the sidewalks and add a few handrails.
Everytime I've needed to cut a root, there's always been another or several others that would become damaged by trying to go back to any lateral.
Maybe it's time to start raising the sidewalks and add a few handrails.
- Location
- Austin, TX
[ QUOTE ]
.....they treated pruned roots with Vegemite, so I reckon the same could go for trees ... full of vitamin B.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, so Vegemite is good for something /forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif
/forum/images/graemlins/pokinit.gif
.....they treated pruned roots with Vegemite, so I reckon the same could go for trees ... full of vitamin B.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, so Vegemite is good for something /forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif
/forum/images/graemlins/pokinit.gif
Good article EKKA. We love our Air spade, Its a whole alien world underground when you open it up and see whats going on down there, its amazing. The Air spade makes girdling root work so much easier and more accurate. IF you have to root prune it is an essential tool. /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif
