Roe v Wade overturned

[Stumpsprouts]

Reach- I challenge you to really, truly put yourself in the shoes of a victim of rape. Let’s call her Indigo. After her brutal, unforgivable assault, she is physically mentally emotionally injured. And she finds out she is pregnant. She’s 16 years old and was hoping to go to college and maybe become an arborist like her dad. Now, if she carries this baby to term, she will rely on her family to raise the child. The wreck of being abused has driven her to drugs. The child suffers birth defects from malnutrition and drug use. In infancy Indigo has trouble keeping her child properly fed and clothed. Of course, she drops out of school and until much later in her 40s, never takes the time to even get a GED and never finds a job that pays much higher than minimum wage. She does not find a stable partner who helps her raise the child, and as many years go on, never finds a stable marriage. By the time the child is in high school, the kid got so much second hand trauma from the mother and first hand trauma from not having a stable home. I want you to think about Indigo today and really sit with your belief that she must have the baby.

My point is- abortion can be an act of compassion for the pregnant person and also the unborn fetus. Let that spirit move to another body that will have a good life.

My point is also- you have those beliefs and make the choices you make based on those beliefs, and I respect that they come from a place of compassion and will not change- but this victim of rape, she should have a choice whether she wants to carry this fetus to term or not.

 

[climbhightree]

Reach- I challenge you to really, truly put yourself in the shoes of a victim of rape. Let’s call her Indigo. After her brutal, unforgivable assault, she is physically mentally emotionally injured. And she finds out she is pregnant. She’s 16 years old and was hoping to go to college and maybe become an arborist like her dad. Now, if she carries this baby to term, she will rely on her family to raise the child. The wreck of being abused has driven her to drugs. The child suffers birth defects from malnutrition and drug use. In infancy Indigo has trouble keeping her child properly fed and clothed. Of course, she drops out of school and until much later in her 40s, never takes the time to even get a GED and never finds a job that pays much higher than minimum wage. She does not find a stable partner who helps her raise the child, and as many years go on, never finds a stable marriage. By the time the child is in high school, the kid got so much second hand trauma from the mother and first hand trauma from not having a stable home. I want you to think about Indigo today and really sit with your belief that she must have the baby.

My point is- abortion can be an act of compassion for the pregnant person and also the unborn fetus. Let that spirit move to another body that will have a good life.

My point is also- you have those beliefs and make the choices you make based on those beliefs, and I respect that they come from a place of compassion and will not change- but this victim of rape, she should have a choice whether she wants to carry this fetus to term or not.

So you are drawing the worst case scenario at every turn. What percentage of abortions do you think are from the above scenario? Are you OK with a stance of you can't get a abortion, unless in a case if rape? Because if you say they can get it whenever, the above scenario doesn't really matter to you so why bring it up? You would still fight for abortion if we said OK for rape.

There are many famous people that were products of rape and/or adoption. Should we erase them all from society. I know plenty of teenage moms that kept their lives together and accepted responsibility for their actions.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

So you are drawing the worst case scenario at every turn. What percentage of abortions do you think are from the above scenario? Are you OK with a stance of you can't get a abortion, unless in a case if rape? Because if you say they can get it whenever, the above scenario doesn't really matter to you so why bring it up? You would still fight for abortion if we said OK for rape.

There are many famous people that were products of rape and/or adoption. Should we erase them all from society. I know plenty of teenage moms that kept their lives together and accepted responsibility for their actions.

Well clearly, I won’t be convincing you, Jules, or Reach that abortions are actually ok. So I’m going for the worst case scenario as mentioned by Reach just to investigate that level of fervor on the subject and hoping I might stir up a small shred of understanding for victims of rape.

By the way- you never answered my question from a previous post- considering family planning measures sometimes fail, are you suggesting abstinence unless we are ready to be a parent?

 

[climbhightree]

Well clearly, I won’t be convincing you, Jules, or Reach that abortions are actually ok. So I’m going for the worst case scenario as mentioned by Reach just to investigate that level of fervor on the subject and hoping I might stir up a small shred of understanding for victims of rape.

By the way- you never answered my question from a previous post- considering family planning measures sometimes fail, are you suggesting abstinence unless we are ready to be a parent?

Yes. That was how I was raised and what I believe is the responsible thing to do as humans. We are should not be animals that just go around procreating at every opportunity. To take it farther, I believe one should be married before having sex.

Every action we take has a potential reaction to it. If you aren't prepared for that reaction you shouldn't do the action, especially if you know that action can cause the reaction. This all is about self pleasure with no consequences, but there are consequences and regrets.

 

[climbhightree]

Well clearly, I won’t be convincing you, Jules, or Reach that abortions are actually ok. So I’m going for the worst case scenario as mentioned by Reach just to investigate that level of fervor on the subject and hoping I might stir up a small shred of understanding for victims of rape.

By the way- you never answered my question from a previous post- considering family planning measures sometimes fail, are you suggesting abstinence unless we are ready to be a parent?

So what is your level of fevor, up to birth? At what point is an abortion killing a innocent human life for you? At what point would have it been OK for your life to been ended?

 

[CHTjules]

My point is- abortion can be an act of compassion for the pregnant person and also the unborn fetus. [/I]

There are compassionate resources/options available for both the mother and baby that don't include abortion. Adoption is one, and also there are pro-life pregnancy centers as well. Attached is a picture with an overview of just some of the compassionate resources such a center provides. Here is a link to the full post with multiple slides with an even greater in-depth, yet still brief, overview of pro-life pregnancy centers. (I hope the link works even without an Instagram account - I've tried several times to copy/insert it multiple ways and I can't be sure it will open without an account - sorry!)

Live Action on Instagram: "Pregnancy resource centers are an amazing resource for pregnant families in need! ❤️"

16K likes, 271 comments - liveactionorg on May 12, 2022: "Pregnancy resource centers are an amazing resource for pregnant families in need! ❤️".

www.instagram.com

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

 

[climbhightree]

We are fighting for an actual life (baby). You are fighting for a hope/dream of a better life (mother), that is trying to avoid the natural consequences of having sex.

The poorest most hard luck people in this world still deserve to live. They still deserve a chance to survive and better their lives, even a baby conceived in a rape.

 

[JCB]

Do you have a break down of that study? How many of those deaths were due to gang violence (especially since it says non suicide)? How many of those deaths were in democrat run cities, where gun control is already extremely tight (therefore gun control is not the problem)?

The problem isn't guns. The problem is the break down of families and society morals where kids don't have the support and don't know how to deal with not getting what they want or feel they deserve. More and more kids these days don't know how to deal with rejection or failure...they don't know how to get up, dust themselves off and try again without getting angry or entitled.

And your solution to that breakdown of society--which you describe very accurately--is to bring more unwanted, un-cared-for children into the situation . . .

 

[climbhightree]

And your solution to that breakdown of society--which you describe very accurately--is to bring more unwanted, un-cared-for children into the situation . . .

No my solution is to fix the root of the problem, not just kill the product of the problem.

Stronger family units, better morals, better adoption options, better support for single families (non government because they fail at everything), better education, better mentality, better work ethic and drive.

 

[JCB]

I can get behind that.


I can dig that too. This is exactly why I’m for choices in planning to have a family or not. To me abortions can save families. It can keep a family from sinking financially and emotionally due to their kid having a kid. It can keep someone from having a child at the wrong time, allowing them to later have a family at the right time when they had a supportive partner and financial stability or kicked a drug habit or whatever it may be. It keeps kids from being born to parents who knew they weren’t ready for it but had no choice, and become neglected and unsupported just in the way you describe.

pew pew! Jk just remember this is y’all’s victory lap.

Can we also agree that family planning measures are not infallible? Condoms break, birth control pills may not work, same with IUDs even vasectomies. Are you seriously telling me we should all be celibate unless we are ready to bring a child into this world?

Watching my wife go through four days of labor and barely make it to the other side definitely galvanized my support for choices when it comes to carrying a baby to term or not. It changes your body forever. It puts strains on your organs and can be life threatening. To say nothing of the emotional pain you can go through by carrying an unwanted, or wanted, pregnancy to term. It should be a choice to become a parent.

Like I say, if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at local barbershops.....

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Yes. That was how I was raised and what I believe is the responsible thing to do as humans. We are should not be animals that just go around procreating at every opportunity. To take it farther, I believe one should be married before having sex.

Okie dokie.

So what is your level of fevor, up to birth? At what point is an abortion killing a innocent human life for you? At what point would have it been OK for your life to been ended?

It’s really not up to me since I will never be a pregnant person. I would support anyone in my life who becomes pregnant in making whatever choice they decide to make.

But to answer the question. Based on my intuition and second hand experience I would say the moment to decide whether to carry the baby to term is around the beginning of the second trimester.

Again… what I think is irrelevant.

There are compassionate resources/options available for both the mother and baby that don't include abortion.

These are good resources and I’m glad they exist. Free diapers and onesies however are not a substitute for a second partner, a good paying job, and affordable stable housing.

Again. Again. Becoming a parent should be a choice.

 

[Reach]

Reach- I challenge you to really, truly put yourself in the shoes of a victim of rape. Let’s call her Indigo. After her brutal, unforgivable assault, she is physically mentally emotionally injured. And she finds out she is pregnant. She’s 16 years old and was hoping to go to college and maybe become an arborist like her dad. Now, if she carries this baby to term, she will rely on her family to raise the child. The wreck of being abused has driven her to drugs. The child suffers birth defects from malnutrition and drug use. In infancy Indigo has trouble keeping her child properly fed and clothed. Of course, she drops out of school and until much later in her 40s, never takes the time to even get a GED and never finds a job that pays much higher than minimum wage. She does not find a stable partner who helps her raise the child, and as many years go on, never finds a stable marriage. By the time the child is in high school, the kid got so much second hand trauma from the mother and first hand trauma from not having a stable home. I want you to think about Indigo today and really sit with your belief that she must have the baby.

My point is- abortion can be an act of compassion for the pregnant person and also the unborn fetus. Let that spirit move to another body that will have a good life.

My point is also- you have those beliefs and make the choices you make based on those beliefs, and I respect that they come from a place of compassion and will not change- but this victim of rape, she should have a choice whether she wants to carry this fetus to term or not.

I appreciate your challenge, and it does not change my belief, that all children, and all people, are created by God and as such are valuable. I can see no instance where it is more compassionate for the child for that child to be murdered.

As for your worst case scenario, you have described my best friend nearly perfectly. He was abandoned by his mother, he got into drugs while living a very hard life. However, thanks to the help of a foster family and a great local church, he did turn his life around. Now he and his wife have adopted five children, all of whom were abandoned after being born to drug addicted parents. Which one of the six of them would be better off had their mother chosen to have them murdered before they were born?

 

[climbhightree]

Like I say, if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at local barbershops.....

And I still would be here saying the exact same thing. Males are not free from this, even if they can't get pregnant. They are just as responsible

 

[JCB]

Adoption is always an option, if the mother does not wish to be a mother, she can give her child up to be cared for by one who does want to. Even considering a broken adoption system, a difficult life is still much more than death. I can see no way to justify the murder of a child, no matter how hard it may be for the mother to put up with having that child inside of her for several months.

With respect, it's plain to see that you've never been raped--or been forced to carry a vicious man's baby for NINE months. This discussion could be a lot more constructive if we all could empathetically put ourselves in the place of the women whose bodies we wish to control.

 

[climbhightree]

With respect, it's plain to see that you've never been raped--or been forced to carry a vicious man's baby for NINE months. This discussion could be a lot more constructive if we all could empathetically put ourselves in the place of the women whose bodies we wish to control.

The same could be said if you put yourself in the place of the baby being torn apart and killed.

 

[climbhightree]

With respect, it's plain to see that you've never been raped--or been forced to carry a vicious man's baby for NINE months. This discussion could be a lot more constructive if we all could empathetically put ourselves in the place of the women whose bodies we wish to control.

And again I go back to rape scenarios is a slim percentage of the abortions being done, and you would not be ok with us saying OK to abortion for just that scenario...so it is kinda a moot point.

 

[climbhightree]

Again. Again. Becoming a parent should be a choice.

And it is a choice at the time of having sex. Sex = potential pregnancy, especially if one is being stupid about it. Stop chasing instant gratification and trying to ignore (then kill) the consequences of that gratification.

 

[southsoundtree]

Nothing like a bunch of men to tell women what to do with their bodies, especially when violently raped by their father, brother, etc.?

Inbreeding is great for children.

Surely that woman should just man up?


How many men here have been raped?

How many men here have carried a baby in their bodies?

How many men here have been pressured into sex by a woman who ademently wanted them not to wear a fallible condom?


How many men here have been forced to do something that may end their lives?

 

[rico]

With respect, it's plain to see that you've never been raped--or been forced to carry a vicious man's baby for NINE months. This discussion could be a lot more constructive if we all could empathetically put ourselves in the place of the women whose bodies we wish to control.

You are having a conversation with folks who want to FORCE the victims of rape and incest to carry a pregnancy to term. 28%-30% of Americans support ending a woman's right to choice, so these folks here are the cruel and inhuman far right fringe MINORITY of an already small MINORITY. They truly are the American Taliban who want nothing more than to impose their extremely narrow view of the world on the rest of us (the majority). The only question is whether we the MAJORITY will allow these cretins to reverse decades and decades of progress, and return us the the stone ages.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I appreciate your challenge, and it does not change my belief, that all children, and all people, are created by God and as such are valuable. I can see no instance where it is more compassionate for the child for that child to be murdered.

As for your worst case scenario, you have described my best friend nearly perfectly. He was abandoned by his mother, he got into drugs while living a very hard life. However, thanks to the help of a foster family and a great local church, he did turn his life around. Now he and his wife have adopted five children, all of whom were abandoned after being born to drug addicted parents. Which one of the six of them would be better off had their mother chosen to have them murdered before they were born?

This is an amazing turn around. Good for him and and the children too. Thanks for sharing. I honestly can’t answer your question.

Just to go back a tick though, in the case of Indigo it began with rape. And I think that changes the scenario. I’m not going to ask whether rape was involved in the story you described but just consider how that may change the experience of the mothers involved.

Yes it’s a small fraction of cases, but to me and the majority of Americans it’s clearly a situation in which abortion is justified. So that will eventually be part of the law of the land.

And it is a choice at the time of having sex. Sex = potential pregnancy, especially if one is being stupid about it. Stop chasing instant gratification and trying to ignore (then kill) the consequences of that gratification.

This is your world view. It should not become legislation that governs your fellow citizens.

Ok. Time to get up in a tree.