rigSAVER

I liked this thread and pics, my rigging I have used for 3yrs is dyneema and is totally bomb proof.

So I decided to make one these rigsavers with dyneema, made the main rope with 10mm amsteel core and polyester cover, same dyneema for the pulley.

I will post pics when complete.
 
Do you worry about having a core exposed splice on the body with a a prusik grabbing the jacket that isnt really connected to the core?
 
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Do you worry about having a core exposed splice on the body with a a prusik grabbing the jacket that isnt really connected to the core?

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Dyneema grips different to most ropes under compression, I can see where you are coming from though.

When you get past 400kg, it grabs so tight its not going anywhere - every rope is not cover/core connected, only when whipped you could say that.

The jacket is very tight on this design.

Attached is NOT the finished design, my testing setup, and still waiting for the x-ring.
 

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How come you went with a soft loop instead of a hard ring? Are you inserting the amsteel into the polyester cover and then class2 DB splicing it? Or is it some bastardized thing? I am interested.

Looks cool?!
 
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How come you went with a soft loop instead of a hard ring? Are you inserting the amsteel into the polyester cover and then class2 DB splicing it? Or is it some bastardized thing? I am interested.

Looks cool?!

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Class 1, Its a deeply spliced thing, and very few tapers, so the ropes are doubled a good distance on the throats.

Yes its a fully replaced core with the amsteel.

My splicing rig is different.

The soft loop is neat and forgiving, does the job and does retain is shape.

My test saver I used for 2yrs was 10mm racing dyneema, gave it a right hammering, nothing gives. :)
 
Here is a short video showing the simple retrieval of the rigSAVER from basket or hanging configuration. The beauty is the simplicity, no balls, or sticks or rings or links, just a knot. Very reliable, and if you arent keen on the fishermans knot the XRR can be set underneath the rig and an overhand can be used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX3mzpieSA0

Two photos showing the rigSAVER in a remotely set crotch. Because of the hard concrete below a soft retrieval was used and worked flawlessly

ehu7e2ur.jpg


usy8y3aj.jpg
 
This was my second attempt, and is a test to see how dyneema on dyneema performs under pressure.

The soft loop is brummeled and the cover is there for protection, The x-ring is threaded through a few times and buried the full length and stitched.

did a random brummel on the pinto, we'll see how it pans out :o

DSC09792.JPG
 
How do you retrieve it from basket? Choked?

I like the build but I maintain you lose a lot of function with the soft eye.
 
don't get me wrong, I like all the thinking going on. BUT...

If you bought that style of ring from TreeStuff or others selling the rings stamped X-Rigging Ring, then you would have gotten a little bit of information with it as well.

just think about this, dyneema degrades at 150 degrees F.

those rings are smooth and not much friction, but they can warm up under heavy use or long runs.

150 degrees is too close for me.

Heck, lay that black ring and dyneema down in the grass for an hour in the summer sun and guess what temperature it might reach?

Or how about... throw it on the truck dash (like so many employees do with everything) and it's toast.

BTW, dyneema on dyneema sucks. Put a slippery fiber on a slippery fiber...... hmmm, go figure...

Keep thinking and working things out guys, it's good stuff, I just thought I needed to jump in to add my two cents instead of you learning the hard way.
 
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just think about this, dyneema degrades at 150 degrees F.

those rings are smooth and not much friction, but they can warm up under heavy use or long runs.


BTW, dyneema on dyneema sucks. Put a slippery fiber on a slippery fiber...... hmmm, go figure...



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Thanks for input, let clear up a few points.

Its melting point is 150c = 300f

I doubt very much if the ring will hit anywhere near that.

I have used this stuff for 4yrs, and tied knots in it, melted it on purpose, put under extreme strain etc.

It is slippery when new, but after some use it changes and grips well.

And to add, this is a TEST setup, so if don't try it you'll never know.
 
yes, I'm glad we are discussing, let's clear things up.

dyneema DEGRADES AT 150 DEGREES F.

Dyneema melts at 300 degrees F.

It is understandable that you and others don't know this because it is extremely hard to find, I think.

Harder to find this info, more and more.

Older specification books showed it better, now it seems they don't put the actual word dyneema with the critical temperature chart anymore. Critical temperature is the temperature that the fiber degrades, or breaks down, looses strength.

I'm sorry if I was a bit short and pissy with you, but maybe I thought it would stick in peoples heads this time if I responded in a Riggs way.

Also, I do applaud your test setups and I hope you do more and continue to share. We all learn faster if you share.

As an apology for being pissy, I'll send you some X-Rigging Rings so you can continue to create. Don't PM me, but write to one of my business e-mail addresses.

Oh, like I said, really hard to find Critical temp charts on dyneema, this is the best I could find right now (HMPE) is dyneema rope:

http://www.samsonropecatalogs.com/lg_dis...l%20temperature
 
BTW, I started using a lot of amsteel blue in 2008. For the first two years I thought it was awesome. I still use it, but when the last of them are worn enough to retire them, I don't think I'll buy more. I do like the amsteel II a lot more, for certain things.

I do still like it's strength, lightweight and no stretch.

1. I don't like that it melts SOOO easily:

A. Chainsaw exhaust blowing on it, such as negative blocking, especially with a big saw cutting big wood.

B. or sending down a block, you shouldn't leave the amsteel on it when sending it out of the tree, down a "speedline" to the groundperson, the block often flips over and the amsteel is then melted; never have to worry about that on other materials.

2. I don't like how it catches on EVERYTHING. rough bark, saw teeth, hooks, etc. Plus it holds more sawdust and particles than a dust mop. Sweet gum balls stick to it VERY well too.
 
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I wanted to use amsteel but decided not to for that reason. I like Validator12!

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Good choice for heat.

By the way, that chart I showed, validator 12 is Vectran, or LCP (liquid crystal polymer). - if anyone wonders what material Nick is referring to that makes validator 12. You will see LCP on the chart.

Haven't used validator 12, but I think I might not like how it picks and catches on everything, strands look thin, hair-like, similar to amsteel. Just from looking at photos.

If money was not a problem, validator II might be an awesome rigging sling material. I planned on getting some...

I haven't touched Zylon (or PBO) cordage yet either. But it sounds good... "Zylon®PBO
Zylon® PBO fiber is composed of rigid molecular chains. These fibers and filaments are characterized by high tensile strength (10 times higher than steel), excellent impact energy absorption (twice that of para-aramid), and exceptional thermal stability." Used in all kinds of high heat and high strength applications from firefighter and welding cloth and apparel to boat sails to rope. The excellent energy absorption is interesting I think.
 
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I doubt very much if the ring will hit anywhere near that.



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In testing, letting a log run fast, we got a single ring to 115 degrees F, if I remember correctly. Now, keep in mind it was running fast enough to smoke and glaze the rope on the porta wrap. Giving maybe a minute before taking the reading and allowing for some inaccuracy, it may have been 125 degrees.... maybe? That was too close to degrading dyneema's strength for me. So, that's a big reason why the XRR slings are tenex tec instead of dyneema. All my first test slings I used the first year was dyneema. Just like you, I thought dyneema would be a good product in the beginning. And for your personal use, it might be. I just didn't want the "masses" using it with these rings. And I continue to caution against using material with low critical temperatures and melting points.
 
Good points.

I only use it for whoppies, for rigging, making sure its a static thing.

We dont do huge trees like everyone from the USA does, in the UK they are mostly 20>30ft domestic jobs which need a light touch to avoid fences and roofs etc.

I have studying different ropes, like the 'ZYLON' but that has the lowest UV resistance, whats the timescale of use on that?

This was a one off because I only had this stuff hanging about, I want to go down the tenex route or something similar.


I have a huge quantity of 4mm kevlar, i'm thinking of making an 8strand weave to see how it performs.
 
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