Redundant Bridge vs. Second Bridge

[flyingmosstreen]

@Njdelaney

This is my configuration for a double bridge on the single bridge treemotion. It is basically petzl open rings and sequoia length bridge (it's from an amazon harness) and I took it off because it was in the way and I wasnt using it. but sort of an option for two completely separate/redundant systems.

 

[DSMc]

My hat's off to all of you that that have made the switch to double bridges. I think that it is, for the most part, a good idea.

I tried running a double bridge on my S.Light for several months and never could get used to the increased feeling of clutter it produced. My solution to the singular aspect of maintaining a twist free double tie-in was to use a triple swivel, the Camp Gyro. I have no fears of failure on the single Treemotion bridge as it has proven itself to be extremely resilient and tough. The Gyro works very well but has not been on my harness long enough for me to personally say how it will work long term.

The concept of a triple swivel on a bridge, however, is a good solution for a clean two climbing system connection.

 

[Mesquite]

for all you guys running one bridge check this video out to see what can happen to that one bridge if over loaded incorrectly

 

[Jehinten]

for all you guys running one bridge check this video out to see what can happen to that one bridge if over loaded incorrectly

What are you trying to show here? Unless I've missed something, this guy was holding his lanyard in his hand and released it mid cut to swing away. There wasn't any kind of failure apart from the failure of a safety protocol.

Speaking of the safety aspect, I've one handed tophandles, I've even (although usually briefly) one handed rear handles on the ground; but one hand on a rear handle, near the climb line and without a secure second tie in sounds like a perfect storm brewing.

 

[Mesquite]

I was just trying to fake you guys out. Cuz at first seeing it, it faked me.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

I'm getting ready to add a second bridge to both my Treemotion S-Light and my New Tribe Onyx. I'm going to use Yale Blaze for the Onyx and Platinum for the Treemo.

My added two cents would be to stay with OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts and not using random sections of rope. The TM bridge, for example, is purpose built for that application and has a different manufacturing process than standard Globe 3000. All the harness manufacturers will have some caveat to only use OEM parts.

 

[Njdelaney]

My added two cents would be to stay with OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts and not using random sections of rope. The TM bridge, for example, is purpose built for that application and has a different manufacturing process than standard Globe 3000. All the harness manufacturers will have some caveat to only use OEM parts.

Thanks. The Platinum I referenced is the OEM bridge material for the Onyx which is why I chose it. I wanted to have two different materials just so they stand out from one another. The Blaze will never be used as a primary support. Still good advice and I appreciate it.

 

[dspacio]

Thanks. The Platinum I referenced is the OEM bridge material for the Onyx which is why I chose it. I wanted to have two different materials just so they stand out from one another. The Blaze will never be used as a primary support. Still good advice and I appreciate it.

I used the BWR after reading what folks on here said about best rope qualities for bridge, and it's chosen for the monkey beaver. I follow the same reasoning here; it's the seconary, nary or rarely the primary.

 

[Willber]

My added two cents would be to stay with OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts and not using random sections of rope. The TM bridge, for example, is purpose built for that application and has a different manufacturing process than standard Globe 3000. All the harness manufacturers will have some caveat to only use OEM parts.

I actually ordered the smallest OEM bridge(it was $45) with my new Sequoia SRT saddle, but after receiving it, I think I won't use it, because to install the OEM bridge one must loosen/unscrew the allen bolt that secures the bridge in place. I don't feel good about ever unscrewing those bolts, their hold will only be compromised for each time they are unscrewed. So, I'm just going to treat the good bridge D rings as the one piece three holed plate as on a typical bridge setup. I'm going to do a double fisherman's knot as I did to replace the bridge on my Buckingham Ergovation.

 

[Reach]

I actually ordered the smallest OEM bridge(it was $45) with my new Sequoia SRT saddle, but after receiving it, I think I won't use it, because to install the OEM bridge one must loosen/unscrew the allen bolt that secures the bridge in place. I don't feel good about ever unscrewing those bolts, their hold will only be compromised for each time they are unscrewed. So, I'm just going to treat the good bridge D rings as the one piece three holed plate as on a typical bridge setup. I'm going to do a double fisherman's knot as I did to replace the bridge on my Buckingham Ergovation.

Those bolts are made to be removed to replace the bridge. Removing them once or twice a year will not affect them sufficiently to be cause for concern. If you are that fearful, perhaps you should choose a different saddle, or a different career.

In my opinion, a factory stitched bridge is more trustworthy than one I tie myself, stitching cannot slip like a knot can. And besides, Petzl is one of the most reputable manufacturers in the gear market, across many industries. I would think they would not make a saddle with a bolt that will fail if you remove and reinstall it like it was engineered to be removed and reinstalled.

 

[Mesquite]

if your iffy about the bolts backing out, put some thread locker on them and then check the bolts before each time you climb and after until you have confidence in them not moving.

 

[Willber]

Those bolts are made to be removed to replace the bridge. Removing them once or twice a year will not affect them sufficiently to be cause for concern. If you are that fearful, perhaps you should choose a different saddle, or a different career.

In my opinion, a factory stitched bridge is more trustworthy than one I tie myself, stitching cannot slip like a knot can. And besides, Petzl is one of the most reputable manufacturers in the gear market, across many industries. I would think they would not make a saddle with a bolt that will fail if you remove and reinstall it like it was engineered to be removed and reinstalled.

Well, many know intuition can be good to heed when there are variables. Well, see it will be affected, but not sufficiently. This screw holding the rope bridge in place is only on the Sequoia, never have seen it on other saddles, there maybe a reason for most others having the one piece plates. Yes, a sewn termination is always more secure, though it's not like every life support knot is sewn, many use knots daily for life support.

 

[Willber]

if your iffy about the bolts backing out, put some thread locker on them and then check the bolts before each time you climb and after until you have confidence in them not moving.

It's not so much about the bolts backing out, but that even the friction of undoing them, the bolt (steel) against the housing (aluminum) could cause loss of aluminum, causing lessening of the original hold.
But, since using the SRT saddle I've actually only used the ventral attach point, with a carabiner connecting the two horizontal gray areas together, omitting use of the vertical gray fabric loop.

 

[Reach]

Well, many know intuition can be good to heed when there are variables. Well, see it will be affected, but not sufficiently. This screw holding the rope bridge in place is only on the Sequoia, never have seen it on other saddles, there maybe a reason for most others having the one piece plates. Yes, a sewn termination is always more secure, though it's not like every life support knot is sewn, many use knots daily for life support.

I will not begin a debate with you, as I know where it will go. You seem to be one who forms an opinion and bends everyone else’s opinions to make yours seem right.

Petzl may have simply been the first to engineer plates that have screw capture bars, that does not make them inferior. It makes them innovative.

Every time you bend your rope, the strength is reduced. Every. Single. Time. Will you stop allowing your rope to bend because it grows progressively weaker when it bends? The same is true with that bolt. The strength loss caused by removing it one time is so minimal that quantifying it would likely take a team of engineers from JPL some astronomical amount of time to do.

 

[Willber]

I will not begin a debate with you, as I know where it will go. You seem to be one who forms an opinion and bends everyone else’s opinions to make yours seem right.

Petzl may have simply been the first to engineer plates that have screw capture bars, that does not make them inferior. It makes them innovative.

Every time you bend your rope, the strength is reduced. Every. Single. Time. Will you stop allowing your rope to bend because it grows progressively weaker when it bends? The same is true with that bolt. The strength loss caused by removing it one time is so minimal that quantifying it would likely take a team of engineers from JPL some astronomical amount of time to do.

I agree it is innovative I like the aspect of the bridge Drings. Use them all the time. I just personally feel iffy touching them because they haven't been time tested. Lol, now the rope stress analogy is not really equivalent.
Sorry, sir you feel I bend everyone else's opinion, I simply try to have meaningful input, and people react to it too emotionally. I have not discredited other's opinion.

And, yes, The strength loss caused by removing is so minuscule, it's hard to quantify, but I just feel iffy about it, until it has lengthily time tested of undoing and doing up in the field.
I only ventured to this thread to get an input on my feelings on this new bridge hold design, and what others thought.

 

[Tuebor]

I agree it is innovative I like the aspect of the bridge Drings. Use them all the time. I just personally feel iffy touching them because they haven't been time tested.

Yet the manufacturer even risks its liability and reputation by not only providing instructions on how to open the rings, but promotes it as a way to modify or maintain its product:

 

[Willber]

Interesting, yes, I see. Well, I better understand from this diagram picture that the bolts only have purpendicular load, so they're not really being stressed from pull out of the threads.
Well, I may even want a shorter bridge than the shortest for the Sequoia, so I may only make a bridge from a rope section and have it as short as possible. Using double fisherman, with sufficient tails on the knots.
Thanks, Tuebor!

 

[Lupin_IV]

Indeed, they are obviously made to be unscrewed. Gear checks are an important thing. However 10.5 platinum fits thru the holes without unscrewing. The overhand knot takes actually hanging in the saddle for a minute to set properly but once it does, it’s very tight. I leave a long tail on both sides but I’ve yet to have it slip.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Those petzl open rings are my go to. I’m a big fan of two bridges not for redundancy but for having two anchor points that don’t twerk the saddle as much. One is a bit longer than the other so when using a mechanical device for crane work, the device and the carabiner aren’t right on top of one another.

I used the TreeAustria for a time which comes with two shackles that can be opened just like most of this hardware. I ascended an oak 4 years ago and when I got to a working position in the tree, noticed one of the shackles had come loose and I was damn near close to losing my bridge and likely my existence on this planet. Ever since then I make sure to use loctite on the threads of hardware that connects the bridge to the saddle.

The open rings have a superior design to shackles- the bolt in the shackle takes direct force from the bridge or leg loop depending on how it’s oriented. The small opening on the open O will likely not take direct force because you can rotate it to a position where it doesn’t line up with a point of tension. Courants open rings have a puzzle piece design which similarly avoids putting direct tension on the connecting bolts, but it’s diameter is quite a bit more than the petzl and many eye terminations do not fit as well or at all.

I just checked the petzl open ring manual. It does not say anything about replacing the bolt after using a few times. I had that in my head but that must have been another piece of equipment.

 

[Tuebor]

Well, I may even want a shorter bridge than the shortest for the Sequoia, so I may only make a bridge from a rope section and have it as short as possible. Using double fisherman, with sufficient tails on the knots.
Thanks, Tuebor!

Not sure how well they would fit, but you could always buy Teufelberger replacement bridges in varying lengths, with or without sewn eyes.