we have a new guy at work that says he has 16 years in the tree and he says the useing just a rope to rig is better then useing a porter rap and a block he said that the rope will last longer by just useing a rope is this true
qustion
- Thread starter newtreeman
- Start date
- Location
- NJ
he's full of it plain and simple. He just doesn't know how to use the gear, so he's making up stuff to defend his crap work style.
thank you thats what my boss said too.
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
thank you
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Let it run a bit, then ease it to a stop before it reaches the target.
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Let it run a bit, then ease it to a stop before it reaches the target.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Let it run a bit, then ease it to a stop before it reaches the target.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been told that wood weighing more than a half ton will snap a 3/4 bull line unless it is heavily preloaded and not allowed to drop at all.
Is this a false premise?
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For one thing you can allow friction without tearing up or heating the line up as much; so then you can run load better...
There are somethings that less elastic length at close overhead friction redirect as support work better for. But, mostly i'd suspect our friend is afraid to L-earn these 'new-fangled' things.
That said, i have a little ol'skool to me; and consider line a wearable resource; that you should know the history of.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a technical rigging question for anyone that can answer it, and you seem kinda savvy Tree Spyder.
If you're blocking down a big main trunk with a hobbs, and the weakest link is the 3/4 inch bull rope, at the point the caught wood's weight is so heavy it may exceed the ropes rating, should the groundie on the hobbs let it run, or cinch up, preload the line substantially and stand pat, assuming a target say 50 feet below?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Let it run a bit, then ease it to a stop before it reaches the target.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been told that wood weighing more than a half ton will snap a 3/4 bull line unless it is heavily preloaded and not allowed to drop at all.
Is this a false premise?
jomoco
So you are saying a piece weighing 1000 plus pounds.....
What type of 3/4 inch Bull line?
What do you mean by heavily preloaded?
Any time you "snub off" a rigging line when dropping a cut into a pulley below, the loads will be far greater on the rigging system in general than if you were to let it run and slowly bring to a stop.
In the scenario you've described, I would expect more of a possibility of failure.
What type of 3/4 inch Bull line?
What do you mean by heavily preloaded?
Any time you "snub off" a rigging line when dropping a cut into a pulley below, the loads will be far greater on the rigging system in general than if you were to let it run and slowly bring to a stop.
In the scenario you've described, I would expect more of a possibility of failure.
[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying a piece weighing 1000 plus pounds.....
What type of 3/4 inch Bull line?
What do you mean by heavily preloaded?
Any time you "snub off" a rigging line when dropping a cut into a pulley below, the loads will be far greater on the rigging system in general than if you were to let it run and slowly bring to a stop.
In the scenario you've described, I would expect more of a possibility of failure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess the principle is to not let the load build any momentum, or limit it doing so as much possible by putting preload on it with the hobbs, say 1500 pounds of preload.
jomoco
So you are saying a piece weighing 1000 plus pounds.....
What type of 3/4 inch Bull line?
What do you mean by heavily preloaded?
Any time you "snub off" a rigging line when dropping a cut into a pulley below, the loads will be far greater on the rigging system in general than if you were to let it run and slowly bring to a stop.
In the scenario you've described, I would expect more of a possibility of failure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess the principle is to not let the load build any momentum, or limit it doing so as much possible by putting preload on it with the hobbs, say 1500 pounds of preload.
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
The piece builds momentum as soon as it leaves the cut. The idea is to not shock load the system by letting it slam into the rigging.
Get a copy of the Art and Science of Practical Rigging workbook. Its a great read.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's more a matter of limiting distance dropped to minimize momentum gain of a load at the limits of the rope's rated capacity.
There is a logic to it, but at what load weight to rope capacity to distance dropped?
jomoco
The piece builds momentum as soon as it leaves the cut. The idea is to not shock load the system by letting it slam into the rigging.
Get a copy of the Art and Science of Practical Rigging workbook. Its a great read.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's more a matter of limiting distance dropped to minimize momentum gain of a load at the limits of the rope's rated capacity.
There is a logic to it, but at what load weight to rope capacity to distance dropped?
jomoco
- Location
- Canada
Isn't this all covered in: http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=157869&an=0&page=0#157869
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
[ QUOTE ]
It's more a matter of limiting distance dropped to minimize momentum gain of a load at the limits of the rope's rated capacity.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are rigging wood near the capacity of 3/4" double braid rope............... cut smaller pieces!
It's more a matter of limiting distance dropped to minimize momentum gain of a load at the limits of the rope's rated capacity.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are rigging wood near the capacity of 3/4" double braid rope............... cut smaller pieces!
Should be relatively simple to prove with a dillon dynamometer at the block, and 1500 pounds of preload on the bull line, with a 750 pound piece/load.
Let one run 30 feet with no preload, do the next as described, and see which generates the highest dynamometer reading.
I guess to be scientifically accurate a meter reading on the bull line would also be needed.
jomoco
Let one run 30 feet with no preload, do the next as described, and see which generates the highest dynamometer reading.
I guess to be scientifically accurate a meter reading on the bull line would also be needed.
jomoco
I am trying to wrap my head around "let it run" and pre-loading also Jomoco.
The way I was taught was pre-loading with a Hobbs like you described.
I am interested in hearing any results or theories. I can imagine situations where you cannot let it run and have to pre-load and drop.
In that situation I would plan on retiring the rope afterwards.
The way I was taught was pre-loading with a Hobbs like you described.
I am interested in hearing any results or theories. I can imagine situations where you cannot let it run and have to pre-load and drop.
In that situation I would plan on retiring the rope afterwards.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
he's full of it plain and simple. He just doesn't know how to use the gear, so he's making up stuff to defend his crap work style.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
But, I will add some valuable content too. Buy him the Art & Science of Practical Rigging. It would be a great start to educate him on the facts. This book alone would change his basic thinking.
he's full of it plain and simple. He just doesn't know how to use the gear, so he's making up stuff to defend his crap work style.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
But, I will add some valuable content too. Buy him the Art & Science of Practical Rigging. It would be a great start to educate him on the facts. This book alone would change his basic thinking.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I just sitting wondering... if you preload and drop, you're taking as much stretch out of the rope as possible, right?
If you do that, the rope has less ability to absorb shock.
To me, in this case, if you have the distance to let the load run and come to a relatively smooth stop, you should run it because that way the line will never see the amped up loads from a sudden stop.
For my money, this is where an experienced, intelligent groundie makes all the difference. Somebody who knows their friction device, be it hobbs or porty or whatever can get the load on the ground with a minimum shock load.
It's not always possible but I prefer the ground to stop the load, the rope just gets it there in a controlled way.
If you do that, the rope has less ability to absorb shock.
To me, in this case, if you have the distance to let the load run and come to a relatively smooth stop, you should run it because that way the line will never see the amped up loads from a sudden stop.
For my money, this is where an experienced, intelligent groundie makes all the difference. Somebody who knows their friction device, be it hobbs or porty or whatever can get the load on the ground with a minimum shock load.
It's not always possible but I prefer the ground to stop the load, the rope just gets it there in a controlled way.
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