Quoting without seeing?

John_KAYS

John_KAYS

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Eastern PA
I'm wondering if any of you have any solutions for getting more information from your clients so as to come close to an accurate estimate without seeing the trees in person. Do any of you have a contact form that allows for photos and a basic tree analysis that the client can fill out?

I am thinking it would be more useful/accurate for stump grinding estimates, but maybe some trees could be quoted without even making the drive. We are a two man crew and it would be nice to cut down on some travel time on the estimate side of things. I know for sales it behooves you to meet the potential client in person, but maybe for repeat clients or simple stump grinding gigs it would work well enough with a photo and a form sort of deal. I wouldn't consider this method for PHC or other areas that need the physical assessment and diagnostics etc...

So, I thought I would see if anyone else has something up their sleeve or any advice in making estimates less time consuming. Maybe weeding out the little obvious jobs this way will help enough with time saved that the jobs that the photo wasn't quite accurate won't hurt as much. Time is money and I don't got much of either.

Thanks!
 
There was a guy that had a fomula where the customer would be instructed how to measure the diameter and height with different rates for distance from his shop. Looks like he stopped doing that. I suppose if you made it clear it was an rough estimate and subject to change depending on circumstances it may save some wasted viewings with tire kickers.
 
We just have a policy that we never do guesstimates. If they arent patient enough to wait 24 hours, at most, for us to see the tree, they likely arent that interested in having the wotk done.


Saves a lot of problems when they forgot to mention that the entire tree leans out over a glass greenhouse, downhill from the chipper, through the 24" gate.

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Limb It said:
We just have a policy that we never do guesstimates. If they arent patient enough to wait 24 hours, at most, for us to see the tree, they likely arent that interested in having the wotk done.


Saves a lot of problems when they forgot to mention that the entire tree leans out over a glass greenhouse, downhill from the chipper, through the 24" gate.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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Not to mention distance from the chipper, is the clean up in a bunch of rocks, a lot of dog poop, steps or AC units, bees and structure of a tree that pictures don't show. We could start a whole thread on small details I am sure. I have lost some jobs when I wouldn't quote over the phone. With pruning the people that want quotes without you seeing the tree in person usually are looking for the lowest price and I don't want those jobs anyhow.
 
Levi.CO said:
It has never worked for me. I used to work for a guy who does that, I'm not sure of his process. @Jamin_Mayer I'm not sure if he visits the buzz anymore but he may be willing to share his process.

For me, it has never worked to my benefit.
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Google earth I believe. If you don't have enough time to look at the trees in person you probably are busy enough. Estimates are time consuming , but can be a make or break aspect of the business. :musculoso:
 
That's what I feel too. All good points. I am very familiar with the difference between what the client sees and what I see when I get there. We have never done a quote without at least a drive by. Often on the phone the client is describing an 8" stump, for instance, and when you arrive to do the estimate you find that the stump is actually 3' in diameter and it has multiple leads stubbed off at 4' high...and you discover that they were looking at the top of the smallest lead cut which is still even bigger than 8"....

I know it was wishful thinking, but I was just curious if anyone else had stumbled onto some method that worked for the small jobs that are 30 miles away...

Google earth or maps sometimes has the tree, but from 5 years ago when it wasn't standing dead with poison ivy covering it and rabid raccoons in it's cavities....;) and before they put the new glass greenhouse under it's lean. and...and, and.

I am a strong believer in the personal approach and meeting the clients at the estimate. The hardest part is I am also a strong believer in being there for my wife and kids and estimates fall on the weekends...
 
I like the sound of the 3 days/2 days. Hiring someone would be good too, I am not the managing partner and am not the one with the ultimate power, but I think we will do something along those lines sooner or later. Especially because he wants to retire at some point.
 
I was sent pictures of a job this summer. Looked real easy in the pictures. Trees looked like they would of been about two picks each tree. I just got real nervous and insisted that I come out and look at the trees first.
Glad I did, trees were much bigger in person. Plus, they had another company come in and remove about half of 6 other trees on their property. This company got to the wood of the pine trees and bailed. Said they could get the trees down, but had no way of removing them from the property.
By looking at the job and talking with the people in person I was able to get a good amount of work at a pretty good price for both the homeowner and myself. Worked out for both of us.
I wish their was a way too get relievable results from pictures. Just so many variables and it takes a trained eye to see those variables. I get what your saying and maybe having a price per hour would work for jobs that are unseen.
I find something like this helpful with storm work. Where I would just like to show up with my crew and all my equipment for X an hour and it takes as much time as it takes. That is the way it is with my mechanic. I never get an estimate from him. I just drop off equipment and its costs what it costs.
 
ROYCE said:
I was sent pictures of a job this summer. Looked real easy in the pictures. Trees looked like they would of been about two picks each tree. I just got real nervous and insisted that I come out and look at the trees first.
Glad I did, trees were much bigger in person. Plus, they had another company come in and remove about half of 6 other trees on their property. This company got to the wood of the pine trees and bailed. Said they could get the trees down, but had no way of removing them from the property.
By looking at the job and talking with the people in person I was able to get a good amount of work at a pretty good price for both the homeowner and myself. Worked out for both of us.
I wish their was a way too get relievable results from pictures. Just so many variables and it takes a trained eye to see those variables. I get what your saying and maybe having a price per hour would work for jobs that are unseen.
I find something like this helpful with storm work. Where I would just like to show up with my crew and all my equipment for X an hour and it takes as much time as it takes. That is the way it is with my mechanic. I never get an estimate from him. I just drop off equipment and its costs what it costs.
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For storm work I understand a hourly rate. In most cases I stay away from a hourly rate because I feel its not the time we spend , but the service we provide. Pruning an apple tree in a parking lot for a hour is way different from being up in a big dead cottonwood doing a removal for a hour. Pretty obvious so the money should be different. Pruning job with a new client, meeting them face to face is must for me. People have vastly different ideas about "tree trimming" so this is your time to educate the client and eliminate gray areas. Nothing worse than doing a really nice prune job and then having the customers question the work after. Its very important to me that the client really understands what I am doing before. Removals are totally different explaining "tree will be gone and do you want the stump ground out" is easy, but I still have a policy of walking to the base and touching the tree to get a full scope. My business is based on service and quality not volume . So if that means I don't get a job because the client wants a quote without me seeing the tree those aren't the clients I want anyhow. I guess you have to decide what kind of company you want to operate. I personally try and do 1 to 3 estimates after the work day in the busy season. I allow up to a hour and sometimes more for each estimate. I see other guys rush through 15+ in a day and have all kinds of problems on the day of the work.
 
owScott said:
For storm work I understand a hourly rate. In most cases I stay away from a hourly rate because I feel its not the time we spend , but the service we provide. Pruning an apple tree in a parking lot for a hour is way different from being up in a big dead cottonwood doing a removal for a hour. Pretty obvious so the money should be different. Pruning job with a new client, meeting them face to face is must for me. People have vastly different ideas about "tree trimming" so this is your time to educate the client and eliminate gray areas. Nothing worse than doing a really nice prune job and then having the customers question the work after. Its very important to me that the client really understands what I am doing before. Removals are totally different explaining "tree will be gone and do you want the stump ground out" is easy, but I still have a policy of walking to the base and touching the tree to get a full scope. My business is based on service and quality not volume . So if that means I don't get a job because the client wants a quote without me seeing the tree those aren't the clients I want anyhow. I guess you have to decide what kind of company you want to operate. I personally try and do 1 to 3 estimates after the work day in the busy season. I allow up to a hour and sometimes more for each estimate. I see other guys rush through 15+ in a day and have all kinds of problems on the day of the work.
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Just use different rates for different services. If your pruning use a set amount per hour. If your removing trees use another amount..etc.
 
Nothing like attempting a phone bid from way outside your area and going because you need some work only to get there and find you'd been totally lied to. What was described as scrawny on the phone is the most unscrawny example of that species you've seen. Then I had a rubby dub threaten to stab me at the gas station cafe because he wanted a piece of chicken on that job. I got a big municipal job and a couple more residentials there during that visit so you never know. The good bad and ugly all in mid winter Debden Saskatchewan.
 
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The real problem is time management and pricing. Make sure the cost of selling is incorporated into your overhead. Not just the jobs that are won but all bids. Allocate time during the day to selling. This is more important a part of the business as doing the work. Qualify the prospect before you go running off to the sales call. Are they really your target demographic? Let me ask this, do you think you could close the deal before you get off the phone? If the answer is no then why try to accomplish any other part of the sales call over the phone?

You're going into a new year start it right with some forecasting your work and what your needs will be. Is it time to bring on a F/T sales arborist? Add another crew? Expand the current crew to increase productivity?

Now, you may have noticed I used the term selling or sales. That is what you are or more so need to be doing. Coming up with a price to accomplish the work is a single aspect of that. Don't make it the whole thing otherwise you'll never be able to tap into the market fully.
 
JD3000 said:
...were you in Canada recently?
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The expression refers to the habit of hardcore drunks buying rubbing alcohol for 88 cents a bottle and drinking it to make the DT's go away. I have never drank rubbing alcohol in my life. However, somebody gave me a bottle of Trump Vodka and I tried it out while I was painting the garage. Ended up using that nasty vodka to clean the paint brushes, and drank the turpentine. It was better. ;)
 
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