Question on ascenders

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It's a good idea to put a spare carabiner through the top holes in the ascender especially if it might be loaded at an angle. This is not possible with some ascenders. It is with the Petzl.

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That is where I tie into. Makes it easy to attach the friction hitch, as well as, capture the climbing line while only using one 'biner.
 
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Also, to anyone who reads this, to start SRT is it better to anchor the rope to the base off the tree, or to tie a running bowline and anchor it to the branch. Thanks alot!

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It's a strategic decision. Climbers will use either depending on the tree structure and other factors. You should probably start a new thread to discuss fully.

Trunk tie advantages
1. Allows ground rescue when set up for it
2. You can put the rope over several limbs in the crown to increase security of the TIP
3. Related to number 2, no need to isolate the crotch

Trunk tie disadvantages
1. Depending on where you anchor the rope the trunk tie can be vulnerable to falling limbs or accidental damage from workers on the ground.
2. Doubles the load on the TIP

Choked TIP advantages
1. 1/1 load on TIP
2. Uses less rope (marginal advantage)

Choked TIP disadvantages
1. No ground rescue opportunities
2. Can be difficult or impossible to isolate the branch on trees with dense crown structure.
3. Once you start climbing you have to go all the way to the TIP unless you've installed a pulldown on the choke.


SRT anchor notes
1. Always back up your bowline on a choked TIP
2. Explore other methods of choking the limb besides running bowline
2. Must have very good assessment skills if you're going to choke your rope to a high branch (or set a high trunk-tie TIP for that matter).
3. Climbers probably use trunk tie more than choked TIP but you need to be ready to use either.

-moss
 
Moss,
Very good list!
One question.
Quote:(SRT notes. 1. Always back up your bowline on a choked TIP)
What do you mean by back up your bowline?
An extra knot or Yosemite Tie Off?
 
I was out in the barn today so I snapped this pic for ya.

I wanted a srt system with very little gear. Carl "Lumberjack" helped me out with this setup.
 

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Brendon,

Is that a Rocker above?

I'm very skeptical of 'backup's above handled ascenders actually working when they would be needed.

There are many things that can negate that configuration from working. Too much or too little tension on the rope, things aren't in alignment, cross loading...

A chest ascender is a much better backup system.
 
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I was out in the barn today so I snapped this pic for ya.

I wanted a srt system with very little gear.

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The carabiner on the bottem of the blue rope goes to my saddle.

No footloops, I wear a Pantin.

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Try this: stand on the Pantin with your full body weight on the rope (as you would be when ascending the line). Then, to simulate the failure of the ascender, disengage the cam of the ascender and see if and how well the Rocker grabs the line.

The Rocker is intended as a fall arrest device for climbers who are ascending with the rope slack and the climber's weight on whatever they are climbing (rock wall, tower etc.). The Rocker works by bending the rope, which causes the cams engage.

If the handled ascender in your setup failed, I don't think that you would fall to the ground. The Rocker would grab, but it might not grab when your arm is extended, immediately after the ascender failed; the Rocker might grab only after it slid some distance down the line and some slack was created by your flailing to catch yourself.

Another thing I don't like about this setup is that it is very easy for the 'biner to sit sideways and get cross-loaded on the ascender and/or the Rocker.

Just my opinion, but I think the safest setup is, as PUClimber said, to use a split tail to make a friction hitch above the ascender. The friction hitch <u>must</u> be properly dressed so that it will grab if the ascender fails.
 

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hmmmm..........

Tom and I were writing at the same time. We both pointed out the same potential flaws.

The chest ascender is a good option.

Sorry, the attachment in my other post is big. I will resize it if requested.
 
Good feedback. Never thought of that. I had the rocker attached to my saddle at my waist, but I had been trying it attached as I show.

I'm gonna go tinker with that setup you've show Mahk.

Thanks alot.
 
The set up that Mark posted is the type of set up and back up I use regularly now when I'm not messing with the rads system. However I have just added the left handed ascender with a foot loop and use that in conjunction for a rope walker type set up.
 
Tyler, have you used that setup yet? I have tried it and found that (for me) the two ascenders hit each other and limited how high I could reach.

Now I just grab the rope with one hand and the ascender with the other. The footloop goes in the lower hole of the ascender. I use a non-locking 'biner because it isn't life support and it makes it much easier to take it on and off.
 

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Thanks. Tommorrow I'm going to try the Texas system outside using some of my Dad's old Petzl ascenders, and some straps we have lying around. Going to anchor the rope to the base, so Dad can lower me if he has too. Has to be done befoer the Super Bowl though (Go Giants!!). Will let you know how it goes. Thanks for the help.
 
hahaha, he said go giants, hahahahahaha

make sure you bring your figure 8 up there and some hitch cord so you can come down, its just like footlocking, you need a way down, unless you plan on climbing when you get up there, and at that point hes going to have to untie your rope

i first practiced srt in a small tree, low heights, but most importantly, i would climb to the top, hook up my figure eight with a back up prusik, then unhook all my srt crap, then descend, and repeat, enjoy and be careful!!!
 
Ranger,

You have a perfect opportunity to try the treadmill version of SRT climbing. Have your Dad/belayer take a wrap or two around the base of the tree. Tie both ends of the rope together using a secure knot. I would use double fisherman's. Have your rope installed in a nice U shaped branch union.

As you climb you get lowered a bit. You will never get far from the ground. With this setup SRT can be practiced with a TIP only about15-20' off the ground. More importantly the climber never has to do a changeover. In time you will need to know how to do that. To practice a changeover you never have to leave the ground though.
 
Yeah. The tree is just in our front yard and ir probaly 40 to 50 ft tall. From what I've seen, it should be good climbing weather all this week, expect for the two rain days on Monday and Tuesday. Can't wait to try and start pratcing some SRT. Thanks for the help!
 
Mark, I have used this set up and so far I think it works alright. I have been playing around with different systems. Incorporating the Eddy and I have a chest ascender on the way as well to play with. I just do a side job here or one there and it's like alright now I can afford a new toy to play with. I have only been climbing three years but I see something new and if I think it may make life easier I look into things hear what others say and test the waters first.
 
Heed Mahk's words on the Rocker!

He pointed it out to me sometime ago. When we used mine in a little different configuration it would slip on the rope if the rope was tensioned. That was the end of using the Rocker in that configuration.

There are MUCH safer ways to provide a second attachment to the rope that act as a second attachment not just as a backup.
 
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Moss,
Very good list!
One question.
Quote:(SRT notes. 1. Always back up your bowline on a choked TIP)
What do you mean by back up your bowline?
An extra knot or Yosemite Tie Off?

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Thanks, not too bad for a rec climber eh?

I do a Yosemite tie-off then finish the tail with a double overhand knot. Probably overkill but makes me feel better when I'm hanging out in space on a long ascent.
-moss
 
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