PTO chippers

colb

colb

Been here a while
Location
Florida
I've got very basic questions about PTOs and PTO chippers.

PTOs:
1. Why doesn't my ditch witch sk650 mini skid steer have a PTO? Why do tractors get them, but mini skids don't?

PTO chippers:
What is bad about using, say, a RAM 5500 or f550 truck PTO to drive a PTO chipper?

Why don't tree services use PTO chippers?

Next week I'll ask about lithium-powered chippers.
 
I saw a couple of chuck n ducks mounted behind the cab with curbside infeeds. Chute made 90 ino the dump. PTO drive. That was 30-40 years ago. Another was mounted low between the frame rails on the back. They used a PTO to drive a hydraulic pump which drove a hydraulic motor on the chipper.

Some power needs are for high rpm/low torque...others reverse. It seems like pto power is usually low rpm/high torque.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
I saw a couple of chuck n ducks mounted behind the cab with curbside infeeds. Chute made 90 ino the dump. PTO drive. .....
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I've always thought that would be a great setup for a pruning crew. Very small footprint. Could go with just that one truck or tow a trailer with mini and backyard lift if need be...

Besides chipper capacity (not an issue for pruning only) what would the downside be?
 
Are there other power sources for chippers besides "on board" and PTO? I looked up a hydraulic to pto converter gor skid steers and it looks like my 12.5 gpm/32 hp/~3000psi will generate about 18hp to the pto upon conversion. So, not enough for me to run a chipper off my skid... Someone else was getting about 20 hp off a 40hp unit.

I'm looking into retrofitting my v10 Triton with a pto and 4x4 trans since my trans is on the lam anyways, but I've heard that the upfit is costly and intense, so I'm not excited about it. Other option is to buy a diesel flatbed f550-type.

Does the PTO or attached chipper limit the orientation of the chipper if you take it off the truck deck, and how much? Is there a 20° range?

The reason I'm interested is that I have a few jobs coming up where I need a chipper - a bit of a different circumstance from the way i usually roll. One is a 10k brush out and plant. The other is a 4k prune and brushout. I can buy a used bandit 65xp if I can find one, but those are hard to come by. Just mainly looking for transportable solutions... ideally, my skid would carry a chipper as an attachment driven by skid hydraulics, but that seems overly optimistic.
 
I thought used 65xp chippers would be readily available as every rental yard has one and most will sell anything on their lot.
 
colb said:
Why don't tree services use PTO chippers?
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The only spot I've used them and seen other companies use them is reclaiming fields. With hydraulic feed wheels, a 6" chipper wants a over 30hp tractor. Previous company I worked for used a 50hp 'bota with a 6" Woods which didn't strain much on 5" hardwood. Seems like towing a small chipper makes more sense usually.
 
PTOs cost money, a mini skid doesn't need a mechanical PTO, it focuses on the versatility of its hydraulic PTO.


A PTO on a transmission has a HP limitation. On a F550 it'll be around 38hp. The PTO itself will cost a couple grand installed fairly easily, then you have to package a driveline to the rear of the truck, then adapt a chipper to that driveline, then you have your PTO powered 6" chipper for twice the cost of a traditional chipper.

Altec played around with a truck's PTO running a hydro pump running a hydro motor on a traditional chipper. I don't know if they are still endeavoring with that idea, but when I saw it, it was pretty meh.
 
ATH said:
I thought used 65xp chippers would be readily available as every rental yard has one and most will sell anything on their lot.
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The rental company here has vermeer, and it seems like vermeer are more common because of their broader market - rental companies just buy a bunch of vermeer this and that. I'll look around though. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Lumberjack said:
PTOs cost money, a mini skid doesn't need a mechanical PTO, it focuses on the versatility of its hydraulic PTO.


A PTO on a transmission has a HP limitation. On a F550 it'll be around 38hp. The PTO itself will cost a couple grand installed fairly easily, then you have to package a driveline to the rear of the truck, then adapt a chipper to that driveline, then you have your PTO powered 6" chipper for twice the cost of a traditional chipper.

Altec played around with a truck's PTO running a hydro pump running a hydro motor on a traditional chipper. I don't know if they are still endeavoring with that idea, but when I saw it, it was pretty meh.
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You know a lot more about this than I was able to turn up. Thanks for sharing. What does/would a chipper look like if it is powered directly by a skid steer hydraulic system? With my sk650 ditch witch, does it take a similar knock in hp to the f550? Why doesn't the full hp of the engine get applied to the chipper?
 
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evo said:
This doesn’t seem uncommon in Europe. I’ve seen photos of a few tractor mounted chippers there, and a fewPTO truck chippers, the ones which took me by surprise were the front mounted chippers, the outfeed shot is over the cab into a box.

View attachment 63316
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I love the Mercedes Benz Unimog. If only they'd sell the new ones here in the US. All we can get are the old refurbished ones that are old enough to pass the import age restrictions(wanna say 20 years +).

Fully mechanical PTO, rather than hydraulic. The 'mog has a lot in common with a farm tractor. Some of them are even available with a standard tractor PTO and implement mount on the rear. Not sure about the particular model shown, but their biggest current model, the U530 has 220kW(295 hp) to the rear PTO shaft and 160kW(@215 hp) to the front shaft.
 
colb said:
You know a lot more about this than I was able to turn up. Thanks for sharing. What does/would a chipper look like if it is powered directly by a skid steer hydraulic system? With my sk650 ditch witch, does it take a similar knock in hp to the f550? Why doesn't the full hp of the engine get applied to the chipper?
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You might get 30-35hp out of the biggest minis (Think Toro 2000, DW 1550). You'll give up 10-20% of that getting the power to the chipper's knives.

If you want a chipper, buy a chipper. The exception being if you have mechanical drive PTO. I have a 135hp tractor that could run a 12-15" chipper, if I had the inclination... but them I'm moving around a larger tractor and it'd take specialized work.

You have $14k in work driving this idea? Just rent something if you must, get the work done, and get on to making more money.
 
Lumberjack said:
You might get 30-35hp out of the biggest minis (Think Toro 2000, DW 1550). You'll give up 10-20% of that getting the power to the chipper's knives.

If you want a chipper, buy a chipper. The exception being if you have mechanical drive PTO. I have a 135hp tractor that could run a 12-15" chipper, if I had the inclination... but them I'm moving around a larger tractor and it'd take specialized work.

You have $14k in work driving this idea? Just rent something if you must, get the work done, and get on to making more money.
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I'll spend 1k in rental fees by the time I'm done, getting caught between daily and weekly rental fees, plus possibly renting it twice. I can buy a used 65xp for 5k... Kind of rather buy than just throw that away. I hardly ever have use for a chipper, but I prune in 3" wood a lot. I could start using one if I'm clever about it and thus improve my materials handling strategy. If I'm ever going to buy a chipper, this is my big moment, lol. It's a much larger percent of my gross than it is for you.
 
Yeah I've thought about this a bunch. International made a pickup truck that had a pto a long time ago. Then there are the unimogs which are basically the coolest things ever. Very expensive though. One day maybe.

I don't think the mini skid makes enough power unfortunately. If you had a 100hp tractor for some reason that would be a good option.
 
@colb Would you be chipping onsite or into a box etc to haul away for these jobs? I remember southsound saying his chuck and duck works great when fed with mini, if all you are feeding is small stuff those can be had for peanuts.
 
Serf Life said:
@colb Would you be chipping onsite or into a box etc to haul away for these jobs? I remember southsound saying his chuck and duck works great when fed with mini, if all you are feeding is small stuff those can be had for peanuts.
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That's another part of it - I'm not outfitted to chip into a box (I have an e350 and 16 yd dump trailer), so these jobs, both being chip into the woods, are ideal for me to transition with. I want a flatbed/switchngo f550/ram5500.
 
colb said:
...It's a much larger percent of my gross than it is for you.
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My point is building a custom solution to a common problem isn't cost effective.


$14k of work to buy a $5k chipper can make sense. $14k of work to build a $30k 6" chipper that only works on one vehicle.
 
Lumberjack said:
My point is building a custom solution to a common problem isn't cost effective.


$14k of work to buy a $5k chipper can make sense. $14k of work to build a $30k 6" chipper that only works on one vehicle.
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You're right. I was getting off track.
 
My old professor used to say, "if you don't use it more than 50% of the time, just rent it". I've just stuck with that.... So, if you don't use a chipper often, try to schedule the jobs you need the chipper right in a row and rent a chipper for a week to take care of those, then drop it off and forget about it. I'm sure you probably already do that, but just saying...

There's nothing like money in the bank. In the end, that's really what you want. A 5k chipper sounds like a disaster to me personally. You'll get it for 5k, send it off to someone for two weeks to pay 2k to get it roadworthy/working, and it's going to break and slow you down all the time. It's going to eat brush very slowly and tediously. You might get lucky, but sounds like a headache.... You never lose more money than when you're dead in the water mid-job because the chipper is broken. Not to mention the blood pressure issues and incredible grey hair percentage increase.

Any chance you know someone with a landscaping company that has a decent chipper? Might be able to give them a day rate for a man/chipper/mason dump combo. That'll work both ways cause then they'll call you when they sell a tree job that they don't have insurance to do. I know a few landscapers that just decided to buy a 50k chipper for some reason and only use it every once in a while. So long as they don't want to gaff the shit out of you and are reliable that could be a good partnership! I've teamed up with guys like that before.

Unless you're flush with cash, sometimes buying something just to have it when you need it isn't always the best move. You have to use the carpool method instead of buying the benzo... No shame in it.

Plus, once you buy a small chipper, you're going to do more chipping. You're going to sell more jobs that involve chipping, want a bigger chipper, and round and round you'll go....

Think about where you want to be at in 5 years so you make moves towards that. If you're small and like being small and happy with the money you're making, you're already there. Enjoy it and put all that extra money in the bank instead of into junk that only makes you a tiny bit more money for the headache. You'll probably be making more on the dollar than the big cats out there.

If you want to grow. Break out the check book and buy something solid. Or the Nike shoe box. Whichever.
 
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