Preventing Panic Mode

Tom Dunlap said:
I got a start on listening. I'm looking forward to the discussion.
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Likewise. Great to see some familiar faces. I'm lucky to have a rec climbing group but I end up being the defacto expert most of the time, it would be great for me to take a break from that and have more knowledgeable climbers in the group. Hell, I'm lucky to have people who want to go into the woods and climb with me, I'll take it.

Superb presentation.
-AJ
 
I imagine most are like, "right, don't panic and pull down on my Blake's hitch, got it, don't need to listen to an hour of that".
So how does an experienced climber ride a modern device to the ground and blame the metal. (See the paragraph above for that answer)
Hope I don't sound rude but frustrated.
 
Recall a video Tom Hoffman did that has some bits on Uni safety - it's still on Youtube - towards the end I think. Richard you and he had it covered for me - great job. Years ago I did pick a uni up and had some interesting times on it on a couple of kern ropes. Got that all ironed out and now it's still one of my go-to's, esp. since it's so easily midline attachable/ removable, and de-sappable. What's been advised over and over? Low and slow? So true.

Addenda: Link to Richard's older video on Unicender "strumming" (esp. for smaller diameter ropes . . . )
 
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Richard Mumford-yoyoman said:
I imagine most are like, "right, don't panic and pull down on my Blake's hitch, got it, don't need to listen to an hour of that".
So how does an experienced climber ride a modern device to the ground and blame the metal. (See the paragraph above for that answer)
Hope I don't sound rude but frustrated.
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Don’t think it’s too long. Great work. You’re establishing a model for what could be happening at small group climber get-togethers more often.

Experienced climbers internalize so many subtle thoughts and moves that are the essence of what keeps them safe. It’s difficult to teach, gotta keep trying.
-AJ
 
When my son started climbing, the parent reflex kicked in and my solution was to set up the rig snug, so snug you couldn't get going fast on descent. fail safe, calming all around. first time was so snug you had to walk the hitch, you couldn't even get going in a continuous descent. I loosened it up as he gained experience.

I think climbing and hitch or device control is like driving standard/motorcycles. Either you've got the aptitude for it or you don't. I trained someone on a motorcycle, a non-standard-driver, and they progressed successfully through each increment but when the session was over they turned off their brain switch and just took their hands off the bars - with the engine running and in 1st gear - and the bike launched. That was the end of that pursuit. That guy drives automatic till this day despite talk of car standard "lessons".
 
if the device is at your arms full extension, you are much more likely to go into panic mode. your natural reaction is to squeeze hard with your arms at full extention. like in a fiotlock prussic. I remember on a blakes hitch which was at a good body thrusting distance from my bridge and I went for a pretty good panic mode slide until I got my sense and let go. when it it is closer to your body, your reaction will be more likely to reach up the rope to grab up and away from the device.
 
treebing said:
if the device is at your arms full extension, you are much more likely to go into panic mode. your natural reaction is to squeeze hard with your arms at full extention. like in a fiotlock prussic. I remember on a blakes hitch which was at a good body thrusting distance from my bridge and I went for a pretty good panic mode slide until I got my sense and let go. when it it is closer to your body, your reaction will be more likely to reach up the rope to grab up and away from the device.
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Exactly and we have to know how devices are designed to work so that we can stay out of their way and let them work. Clothing, tools, hands etc. holding down the top "springed" devices or otherwise disabling the "spring" in other devices.
 
Examples.
Hitch Hiker, the friction hitch needs some tension to stay next to the climbing line to self engage.
The wrench needs to stay off the top of your friction hitch either by the tether length or some other means.
The rope runner the bird needs to lift so that it can engage the rope.
On the unicender the lower L bracket must not be prevented from being perpendicular to the climbing line so that the plunger spring can engage the friction plates.
The bulldog bone must have a rope of a size that maintains friction against the ballards.
Even a rope clamp must have an internal spring or a lanyard with tension to engage the cam.
 
Love this discussion! Thank you Richard for bringing this up. I hadn't put much thought into the components that make up a good multiscender. I am currently really enjoying the Rope Runner Pro and finding that these 3 elements are remarkable, allowing it to function smoothly and consistently. The one well known drawback with the RR is when used with a haul-back (3:1) which interferes with the spring and the controllable friction components. If you let go and release the haul line completely and quickly the Rope Runner can engage the rope, but it takes a leap of faith. I was thinking about this circumstance while watching your video. I use a Footie...soon to be Footie from CI! rather than a haul back configuration in most cases.

Richard, would climbing with a hand ascender above the multiscender be safer on an ascent (as far as the learn to let go)? What are your thoughts as far as having a toothed device above your primary? My hands are getting 'old' and tired so I have been using a hand ascender more and more. Obviously it wouldn't be for every circumstance.

My one worry on training myself to "let go" would be if my multiscender were failing for another reason (and it wouldn't engage) and I SHOULD grip and hold the line to save me from disaster.

Really appreciate your contributions to this industry!
 
John_KAYS said:
Love this discussion! Thank you Richard for bringing this up. I hadn't put much thought into the components that make up a good multiscender. I am currently really enjoying the Rope Runner Pro and finding that these 3 elements are remarkable, allowing it to function smoothly and consistently. The one well known drawback with the RR is when used with a haul-back (3:1) which interferes with the spring and the controllable friction components. If you let go and release the haul line completely and quickly the Rope Runner can engage the rope, but it takes a leap of faith. I was thinking about this circumstance while watching your video. I use a Footie...soon to be Footie from CI! rather than a haul back configuration in most cases.

Richard, would climbing with a hand ascender above the multiscender be safer on an ascent (as far as the learn to let go)? What are your thoughts as far as having a toothed device above your primary? My hands are getting 'old' and tired so I have been using a hand ascender more and more. Obviously it wouldn't be for every circumstance.

My one worry on training myself to "let go" would be if my multiscender were failing for another reason (and it wouldn't engage) and I SHOULD grip and hold the line to save me from disaster.

Really appreciate your contributions to this industry!
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Do you wear gloves? I use those foam nitrile cut out a few fingertips and they work great and find that I don't have to use so much strength to get the same grip on a small diameter line. I think I prefer that to a tooth ascender above.
Yes every multicender is a little different and has a different vulnerability to some of the same circumstances.
What we did in our club climb I want to take a little further, I think there is some real valuable lessons to learn. Just let it go may not be helpful. One of our club members, and I am certain he did not push in the pins, would not be in good health at this moment if he did completely let go. Acknowledging that failure is another issue.
I think if we could practice this panic mode and assess our life support Instinctively it might help. Victims of a fall seldom remember what they were looking at or doing at that panic moment.
 
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