PERKINS PROBLEMS...low hour issue

C

CTS1999

Location
Athens
I purchased a brand new skid steer about 4 weeks ago. It was a 2015 year model that had been on the lot a while but only had 2 hours on it. At 16 hours it started acting like it was starving for fuel. The tank was full at purchase and I hadn't even had to put fuel in it yet. Gauge was reading 1/2 tank and the tank is translucent so I know the gauge is correct. First thought was the pickup tube in the tank was sucking air. Then I noticed there was water in the fuel bowl. Open the pit cock to drain the bowl, nothing drains out. Next, I take the fuel bowl off and clean it and replace the fuel filter as recommended by the service manager at the dealer. I spoke with him on Friday afternoon just before they closed for the day. He said it was probably condensation from sitting on the lot so long. Decided on my own to go ahead and drain the fuel tank to try and get rid of any more water. I spent a little over $110 on an electric fuel pump, hoses, fittings and a new fuel filter. I put the first gallon I pumped out into a clean, clear gallon jug so I could see how much water was in it. I'll try to add a pic.

So after replacing filter, draining tank and filling with fresh diesel and additive(water displacer) as advised by the service manager, it seemed to be running good.

Fast forward to today. First 4 hours, everything is good, then it started starving for fuel again. Machine has 39 hours on it now. I check the bowl, absolutely nothing but red fuel in it, no condensation at all. Fuel bowl is full(no air in it). Call the dealer and service manager is on vacation til next week. Talk to the parts dept and they said a mechanic would call me. At 4:00 he still hadn't called so I called my sales rep. He asked what I thought he should do about it. I told him that I thought they should bring me a machine and pick mine up and fix it. It has a 2 year/2000 hr warranty. He got an attitude about it and said he didn't have a machine to bring and even if he did, his trailer was broken.

I feel like I have done more than I should have already. I bought a new machine to work with, not on. Am I being unreasonable?

Any advice?
Thanks
 

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Not unreasonable.

Sorry you aren't being better taken care of.....yet. Keep at it, and let them know how much you look forward to posting positive results on TreeBuzz.

Welcome by the way.
 
Absolutely a reasonable request! But unfortunately it is the world we live in. The dealer's say "yes we will provide a loaner machine while yours is down", but then you can't get ahold of them or they don't have something. It's frustrating at the very least. The sales guy got his money so now he goes missing, while you have a broken machine trying to get it back up so your guys can keep busy.
I had a brand new bandit 1390 (3 hrs) in a driveway would not throttle up, two contract climbers putting brush on the ground and having to pay them. After repeated calls, with no answer we diagnosed and repaired the throttle switch in an hour and fifteen minutes.
Unfortunately sometimes it's just easier to find the problem, come up with a solution and fix it yourself. In your case I would push harder or call corporate. It's inexcusable to be treated like that after spending big money on new equipment!
 
Noticed e your location is Athens. GA? If so, what dealer? Georgia Arborist Assn has some dealer all sponsors. If one of them, maybe pressure can be put on them through that assn.
 
Hard to give any specific advice without knowing what model machine or engine you have. Assuming you bought a 100 or 11o, you would have engine model 1100d or 854.
The equipment dealer is unlikely authorized to perform Perkins warranty work. If there was water in the fuel system, don't expect Perkins to warranty any damage caused by it. They didn't put it in there. Perkins engines have a 2 year shelf life, after that the warranty clock starts counting down, regardless of the machine's service date.
Here is some advice. Purchase the Perkins extended service contract.
 
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The dealer is Perimeter Takeuchi in Buford, GA

The machine is a TS60V powered by 60 HP Perkins 4 cylinder (I'll find the engine model # later this morning and post it)

I understand that Perkins didn't put the water in there, but I didn't either. The loader was full of fuel when I bought it. The problem started with the original tank of fuel.

Rain and wind this morning so I'm taking a trip to the dealer.
 
Bring the machine back and demand a loaner while they repair whatever is wrong. If they say no, tell them your going to call the manufacturer of the machine that they are selling. This kind of thing is unacceptable. Too often when the sale is done so is the service. I say hold them accountable....tell them your returning the machine if they dont fix it. I know theres also help available on more of a statewide level but dont have to much experience with that (attourney general and so on).....good luck!
 
Dropped the machine off. The mechanic was very nice and understanding of the problem. However, no loaner. They told me to go rent one somewhere. The warranty doesn't cover loaners or lost wages

He said it could be something simple or it could take several days. Not what you expect when you purchase new.
2 days rent=1 payment
I'm not a happy camper at the moment.
 
In 2015, the 60 was powered by a Perkins 404D-22t. The serial number will start with GP65...N..... It is on an aluminum tag riveted to the engine block directly above the injection pump. Find it and engrave the number on the back of the machine so when you are in the field standing there next to the machine with Perkins on the phone and, you have the number. They will need it. They won't know the engine model used in a 60, they won't know which of the 100 plus 4 cylinder engine models you have. It is your job to know it and provide it. The benefit is, generally parts cost less from the Perkins dealer compared to the ASV dealer.
I suspect your no start problem is going to be a simple problem, 5 minutes to diagnose. I had a customer with identical story, machine had sat on lot for years, same model, water in fuel, pulled flushed tank, filters... Problem was plugged pre-filter. Plugged with rust. How does the squeeze bulb primer feel. is it collapsed? is it rock hard?
Perkins supplied and warranties the engine. They won't provide a loaner for a machine for a machine with their engine. If the problem is rust in the fuel, it isn't even a Perkins warranty issue.
To those expecting a loaner, not an unreasonable expectation. More likely to be met when buying a new Cat or Deere branded product where the engine and product are supplied by the same manufacturer. There is a reason Cat branded product cost more. A worldwide product support network costs money.
 
dieselfitter said:
Perkins supplied and warranties the engine. They won't provide a loaner for a machine for a machine with their engine. If the problem is rust in the fuel, it isn't even a Perkins warranty issue.
To those expecting a loaner, not an unreasonable expectation. More likely to be met when buying a new Cat or Deere branded product where the engine and product are supplied by the same manufacturer. There is a reason Cat branded product cost more. A worldwide product support network costs money.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a very reasonable explanation. And I would accept that Perkins would not supply him with a loaner. And agreed that the rust in the fuel system is not a Perkins issue (if it is rust or even water). What I would expect is the dealer/manufacturer of the machine (I.e ASV, if it is one) to step up and take care of the guy. Because both water and rust due to the long sit in the yard with no care taken to prevent the problem is squarely on the dealer's shoulders. The manufacturer comes into the picture because the dealer is not selling their machine in its best quality or condition making for an unhappy consumer and less than stellar reviews, making for less opportunity as a repeat customer. This has happened several times in our area with the Morbark dealer, due to customer dissatisfaction.
 
dieselfitter said:
In 2015, the 60 was powered by a Perkins 404D-22t. The serial number will start with GP65...N..... It is on an aluminum tag riveted to the engine block directly above the injection pump. Find it and engrave the number on the back of the machine so when you are in the field standing there next to the machine with Perkins on the phone and, you have the number. They will need it. They won't know the engine model used in a 60, they won't know which of the 100 plus 4 cylinder engine models you have. It is your job to know it and provide it. The benefit is, generally parts cost less from the Perkins dealer compared to the ASV dealer.
I suspect your no start problem is going to be a simple problem, 5 minutes to diagnose. I had a customer with identical story, machine had sat on lot for years, same model, water in fuel, pulled flushed tank, filters... Problem was plugged pre-filter. Plugged with rust. How does the squeeze bulb primer feel. is it collapsed? is it rock hard?
Perkins supplied and warranties the engine. They won't provide a loaner for a machine for a machine with their engine. If the problem is rust in the fuel, it isn't even a Perkins warranty issue.
To those expecting a loaner, not an unreasonable expectation. More likely to be met when buying a new Cat or Deere branded product where the engine and product are supplied by the same manufacturer. There is a reason Cat branded product cost more. A worldwide product support network costs money.
Click to expand...
The pre filter was changed at the same time I pumped the tank. The fuel bulb is nice and firm and the clear fuel bowl has no water in it now.

Problem isn't no start. It will lug dead from 3000 rpm with one hydraulic function. Even as simple as opening the grapple while no other functions are operating. When it goes dead, it will fire right back up almost every time with cranking the starter for 3-4 seconds.

I posted a pic of the plate I think you are speaking of.
 

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Only update so far...mechanic said they were going to drain the tank, try to clean it as best as possible, flush the lines and replace the filter and fill with "fresh" diesel. See if that fixes the problem. If not, next step is possibly a bad injector.

Apparently there is no diagnostic port on this machine to check any codes.

Hopefully they will find and fix the problem fast.

Takeuchi implied to the mechanic that I put bad fuel in it. They wanted to know if I was pumping it out of a fuel cell, which I do not. Then they wanted to know where it came from. That's an easy answer because we fuel up at the same place daily and have since the store was built 5 years ago. Thing is, fuel from the same pump goes in the chipper on a daily basis and it hasn't had any issues.

Hopefully I will get to leave positive reviews on Takeuchi next week!
 
HOw could algae grow in a closed dark system? By definition algae are photosynthetic.

Perhaps you need to find a mechanic that knows that fungi and bacteria are a potential issue not algae.

Back to the original issue, I think that you may have a dirty system that needs cleaning. Start with the tank and clean all the way to the injectors. Often forgot is the fuel strainer on the end of the pickup in the tank. If there is crude in the tank start by power flushing the tank, pull the strainer, remove the filters, blow the lines, replace and rebuild, add fresh fuel with Stanadyne performance formula and maybe injector cleaner, then prime the system and start.
 
mrtree said:
HOw could algae grow in a closed dark system? By definition algae are photosynthetic.

Perhaps you need to find a mechanic that knows that fungi and bacteria are a potential issue not algae.
Click to expand...

Algae in diesel that sits is a common issue. And he did say he has a translucent fuel tank. Does it really take a mechanic with a degree in biology to figure out his problem? Who cares if it's fungi or bacteria or algae and what the mechanic calls it, all he needs to know its that shit grows in diesel that's been sitting.
 
If he does not know fungi and bacteria grow in diesel than he is not educated for the problem he is dealing with. I have dealt with multiple mechanics who claimed to understand diesels but did not have a clue. Waste of time and money.

Of course you are right who cares.
 
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