Off duty firefighter killed trimming trees...

OK hopefully I can clarify that I have no judgment about firefighters and cops doing tree work. I think they are the same sort of people as arborists in that, they like their excitement. I have big respect for those branches of civil service. I encourage my kids to consider them as professions. We have a preponderance of those guys doing trees in my town for some reason.

I don't think this is a part time job. You have to do it almost everyday to establish the habits and methods that make you able to work safely. You also need to develop the relationship between aerial and ground guys and that takes regular time together. Then there's the biology/horticulture side that pretty much takes three or four lifetimes to gain a true understanding. It's deep, no less so than fighting fire. But an arborist, who by most accounts makes less than a firefighter couldn't get into part-time rescue no matter what.
 
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But an arborist, who by most accounts makes less than a firefighter couldn't get into part-time rescue no matter what.

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The majority of the Fire service in the US is made up of part-time and Paid-on-call firefighters. So as an arborist you can earn extra income doing part-time what I do full-time.

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You have to do it almost everyday to establish the habits and methods that make you able to work safely.

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I have to disagree with the above a little. I do think you need to know what you are doing and the more practice you get the better you will be, however, since I am not in the tree everyday I tend to move a little slower and tend to be more cautious before I do anything. Sometimes not being as comfortable is actual safer. Let's face it, how many times have people been hurt/killed because they were too comfortable/relaxed. Sometimes being too comfortable is the bad habit.

Chris
 
A person who owns a 20' boat wants a 30' boat and so on. Overwork is no way to live. If we could just be happy with less stuff the world would be a better place.

I did the shift work plus built my house. During this I went 24 hours a day for a couple years and it frickin' near killed me. $50,000 is enough if you learn to live with less. I'll bet some of the trees get climbed following a night shift with an hour's sleep.

So be a full time whatever, I'll be a full time arborist we'll both make 50,000 and both be happy. All but one of my competition are part timers and underbid me every time. The last job lost is repairing the damaged roof today. I charge $100/hour on site/ 2 man crew, if I'm lucky. Average rate or under if I understand other markets.

Times are changing. Some Arborists have invested a signifigant amount of time and money into an education to be more than skilled labourers with a strong back. I'm talking more education than the minimum requirements of a CA. How should I feel as I loose another tree job to a part timer? Only to see the tree landing on the roof or getting topped.

If your here on Tree Buzz you are obviously not like my competition, you could well be better at it than me. But generally this is not the case.
 
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So be a full time whatever, I'll be a full time arborist we'll both make 50,000 and both be happy.



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So if 50,000 is enough then why be ticked off at someone undercutting you? Oh I get it your saying if there where only pofessionals cutting trees and not "part-timers" then you'd be making more than 50,000? Isn't that like a firefighter wanting a side job? I work 72hrs a week on a ambulance and still cut trees sun,mon,tues,wed and friday>>>>>>isnt five eight hour days full-time? But in your defense your correct im young and not gonna be able to do it forever! Just gotta lay the ground work for other people......for me to boss around! haha
 
What I'm getting at is my rates are lower than other markets. These rates have been established by survival of the fittest, supply and demand. So that's what it costs to operate a tree service. If I'm under the average and being signifigantly undercut, these people are giving their time away.

Tree work is a unique case. It's a fun, outdoor, low stress
activity. I'd rather do it than have a holiday. So people, myself included will do this for less than it's worth. If you want to be a top professional with the correct gear, equipment, and education it costs.

I can only dream of making 50,000 in my current market conditions. The reason is my competition has their income subsidised by other employment and they've never heard of ansi or Shigo.
 
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[...]The reason is my competition has their income subsidised by other employment and they've never heard of ansi or Shigo.

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And I think this is key. In tree care, you need more tools than just a saw... in fact, the less you need a saw, the better you're doing your job.
Most arborists do the job because they love it, they love trees and plants and they devote a lot of energy into keeping trees alive. It unites us and makes arboriculture a PROFESSION rather than an occupation. Problem is, there ain't a lot of money in it so takedowns are bread and butter.
I haven't met a firefighter/cop yet that understands why and how trees decay or where to look when something is wrong. Most don't even know how to make a collar cut. That relegates part timers to takedowns... the arborist's bread and butter.

I'll say this though, if you're doing trees 4 days a week, you're pretty much full-time. Even when it's cranking I spend a day or two a week doing calls.

I'm not complaining (much) about firefighters doing tree work... I like firefighters and a few are good friends. I don't begrudge them the side work. That's the part of the American dream that's still alive... work as much as you want. But be advised that we are trying to elevate arboriculture to the truly professional status it deserves. Guys getting hurt or killed doing trees on the side is a serious impediment.
 
Does the average firefighter/cop doing tree side jobs have liability and/or life insurance?
What a (extra) drag for thier family should something bad happen to them!
 
I think an insured, skilled tree worker should be doing tree work. If they are an insured, skilled tree worker, and a skilled fireman, great.

Its a dangerous job where a minor injury can keep them from performing their full time occupation/ profession.



Rob, I hear what you are asking.
I don't think that we can talk about the "average" FF/ Cop doing side jobs. We should stick to a case by case basis and say that they all should have liability insurance, and either worker's comp or opted-out/ not opted-in if they are the owner of the legal, insured business. Life insurance is for their family alone, not to protect a client.
 
My mistake - I meant worker's comp. That's what is on my mind doing side jobs: "What if I got hurt on this job instead of my real job?!?" (and btw: both my real and side job is arborist!)
 
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