New device from ISC

southsoundtree said:
2 bridge connecting biners is odd.
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I thought so too.

If the argument is it is safe because they are opposite/opposing that doesn't make a lot of sense because then you only have 1 on the eye of the rope above ...you could have as many as you want on the bridge but I'd it comes outta the eye, you are cooked.
 
ATH said:
I thought so too.

If the argument is it is safe because they are opposite/opposing that doesn't make a lot of sense because then you only have 1 on the eye of the rope above ...you could have as many as you want on the bridge but I'd it comes outta the eye, you are cooked.
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Then there is the issue of what those biners are connected to. Is it to two independent bridges? Are you then running a matching setup in tandem to also make sure that you have a redundant second rope at all times? There's safe, and then there's a point where systems being so cumbersome, it becomes a hindrance to safety.
 
That’s a bummer to hear about the ddrt attachment hole.. I strongly prefer using a oxan steel carabiner the end of my line. The weight makes for easier attachment without messing around with a throw bag or a moneys fist.
I do like their compact o’s but use that to attach on the bridge

I’m pretty sure the opposite and opposed are just to illustrate the side of the swivel eye. Personally if I run two carabiners in the same attachment they are opposite/opposed. Helps avoid gate conflict and just good practice imo.
I see no point of running dual carabiners as shown in the photo.
Wonder how they feel about a cow tail setup to the swivel eye?
 
evo said:
That’s a bummer to hear about the ddrt attachment hole.. I strongly prefer using a oxan steel carabiner the end of my line. The weight makes for easier attachment without messing around with a throw bag or a moneys fist.
I do like their compact o’s but use that to attach on the bridge

I’m pretty sure the opposite and opposed are just to illustrate the side of the swivel eye. Personally if I run two carabiners in the same attachment they are opposite/opposed. Helps avoid gate conflict and just good practice imo.
I see no point of running dual carabiners as shown in the photo.
Wonder how they feel about a cow tail setup to the swivel eye?
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A) A bigger binder will fit in the "OK" setup of the instructions. Not sure how big...the Am'D fits, but not much spare room for a bigger one to have wiggle room.

B) They advertise that the swivel can go straight onto your bridge, so I'd think any regular attachment would be OK...but how are you tying in with a cow hitch?
 
I'm confused about the two Biner conversation. I missed something clearly. I run a Petzl OK on the top hole for MRS. I've been running it solid in the recommended hole on top since I got it. The OK is tight to get in and I notice a little wear on the biner. I havent run it on the rear as I think it will run poorly there. As far as the tending hole. When I use it SRS I actually tend from the top hole where the recommended MRS attachment it. It tends much better from there. I missed the recommend biner in the instruction manual
 
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ATH said:
A) A bigger binder will fit in the "OK" setup of the instructions. Not sure how big...the Am'D fits, but not much spare room for a bigger one to have wiggle room.

B) They advertise that the swivel can go straight onto your bridge, so I'd think any regular attachment would be OK...but how are you tying in with a cow hitch?
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Speaking of a cow tail. Essentially a short single line lanyard for passing an obstruction. Or in our world a choked lanyard coming back to the bridge vs a hip D.
 
evo said:
That’s a bummer to hear about the ddrt attachment hole.. I strongly prefer using a oxan steel carabiner the end of my line. The weight makes for easier attachment without messing around with a throw bag or a moneys fist.
I do like their compact o’s but use that to attach on the bridge

I’m pretty sure the opposite and opposed are just to illustrate the side of the swivel eye. Personally if I run two carabiners in the same attachment they are opposite/opposed. Helps avoid gate conflict and just good practice imo.
I see no point of running dual carabiners as shown in the photo.
Wonder how they feel about a cow tail setup to the swivel eye?
Click to expand...
Triple action are too easy to open, sometimes. That Might be why they have 2. Double bridges have become a redundancy in stone saddles.

Curious about the User Instructions info.
 
southsoundtree said:
Triple action are too easy to open, sometimes. That Might be why they have 2. Double bridges have become a redundancy in stone saddles.

Curious about the User Instructions info.
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No doubt moving ropes rubbing on the gate seem to do it the most on a bridge attachment.
I tossed my saw with the saw lanyard crossing my bridge and it somehow clipped itself in on my attachment point.
Pretty spooky but safe as I was tied in twice.
 
Just got to play on a reflex for the first time. Didnt hold on kernmaster very well but Ran well with a wrench. To be fair kernmaster is 11 mm and so outside the recomended ropes. Put it on scandere and slid right to the ground. That is an 11.7 and it was brand new and quite slick. It did seem to work quite well on the yale confetti without a wrench just fine, worked with no problems. Protocol for the wrench is that it should not be relied on to make the hitch work. Those were the only ropes we had today. Im getting my own new reflex soon so ill have more feedback.
 
Bino H tried his Reflex on a buncha 11.7's on his Youtube channel - they seemed fine too. I'd like to hear about 11.5's like good ole Tachyon, or Drayer StatX ("thick" feeling and "stiffer" 11.5) or Sterling Scion (maybe a "smaller" feeling 11.5 based on settings for an AK2 for example). ISC's manual for the Reflex did show usage for 11.0 mm rope though (P8), but with weight categories before you need a wrench, I think it was. I still would like to hear some sap'd up rope stories . . (hopefully happy ones!).
 
Just had a go with courant squir... did not hold my weight. That is tightly woven 11.5 supposedly, looks like an 11.

Disclaimer: this is a pre production model that i have been playing with and it has more than a few months of heavy use. It might be worn out a bit. I know the zig zag can get slippy over time. My understanding is that only a few small changes have been made from this device to the production that would not effect performance.
 
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Thanks Kevin.
I do wish folks who are doing on-line reviews would state what rope(s) they are using and with what weight on the device. Some of the ropes can be guessed from the colour/ pattern but others not so much.
Had an old Prof who always admonished us when doing science/ engineering to record all the variables for a test; otherwise you stand a good chance of coming up with what he called a "dimensionless number". And hence most journal articles/ papers have in the last paragraphs "more testing is required" (so our statistical "s" comes smaller and tends more towards "reality"). Some license here, but we get the idea.
 
Im also curious about the wear. Most of the reviews so far have been with brand new devices. I saw someone say they climbed on 10mm with it. Maybe that was a new device. With the zig zag, its a good idea to start with a skinny and work up to a fatter rope. If you start with a 12, a smaller rope will not work pretty quickly and you wont get as many climbs out of the device. Very curious how this device works out. with my limited experience with the three new devices, i would rate the blackbird first, the reflex second and the throttle third. But i need to put more time on the reflex to know for sure. I really liked climbing on the blackbird. The reflex is a little slower on both ascent and descent on the rope that did work (yale confetti 32 strand) it felt scrapey. Somewhat better than a zigzag without a wrench. (Which does work to a degree, inspite of what they say). The blackbird really is a pleasure to climb on. The only downside i can see is the quick wear, but easily replaced and cheap wear parts. The throttle was very difficult to get to work, but i think it has a long breakin period. I have not taken time, it needs a true 11 mm to work at least to start. I see potential in the throttle. All of these devices are pretty awesome to be able to switch between true srs and mrs. All have very well thought out designs.
 
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I don't have a Reflex (or Blackbird) to try but I have noticed that with both the ZZ and Zillon, the links seem to elongate or spread out more on thinner diameter ropes. So this might be an explanation a bit for coping with wear - the wear points change a bit as the rope diameter gets larger? On the Reflex, it might be a change in the casting for the Ziggy links could alter the ability to cope with different ropes/ weights. Anyway we are in an amazing time to be hanging around on tat in a tree! Just think about ten years back! Cheers
 
I think the links are stainless steel, right? Not that they won't wear, but a LOT slower than aluminum. I've heard that advice @treebing with the Unicender - start small and get bigger as it wears. I've been on 11.7 mm, then 12mm Imori, then back to 11.7mm with no problems...but have been back on Imori for a year or so. Planning to start on that with the Reflex. Just got the Compact Oval carabiner, so should be able to try it this coming week.
 
I’d be curious if the preproduction model saw a lot of single line without a wrench or the “expert wrap” and that’s what caused the possible “wear” or rope pickiness.
 
Was just reading the thread regardimg scandere and how it doesnt get along with the zig zag very well either. Thats interesting. I wonder why, the runner likes it just fine.
 
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