Never underbid a job again...

DonaldRobertson

DonaldRobertson

Location
Youngstown, Ohio
Just this past week I did a job where I lost out on money big time and then I was shown by a friend on how to bid jobs without screwing myself over again and I'm going to tell and demonstrate how to not under bid a job again.

I did post a picture to show you a little detail so you get the hint a little better. If I were cutting down this tree in my photo demonstration, I would charge $1000 and if there were two limbs that needs rigged down cause its over a house I would add $200 making it a total of $1200 for the job. Say in my picture that is only considered to be the truck of the tree and not including the canopy.

Ok so you wanna bid a tree right but you can only think of how long this tree will take and how many hours are going to be involved with it but not really sure what to charge so you kinda give the customer a rough cost of what its going to cost to take their tree down. First thing you should do so you don't screw yourself over is to walk up to the tree that they want down and walk the front side of the tree stepping it off using your feet somewhat similar to a DUI heel to toe test and say you count off 5 steps well that would be $500 ok then go to the side of the tree now and repeat the step off process and say you count out another 5 steps and that would be another $500 so 10 step offs would be $1000. Each step off counts as $100 and then for each limb that needs to be rigged down over a house or powerline etc, charge another $100 for each limb.

After you use this formula on how to price trees and if your not happy with what you came up with just add or subtract a little of what you want the customer to pay.
 

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Well if it makes no sence to you then its not going to help you out at all. If I would show you in person or on video it would make alot more sense to you. I show and tell people stuff better in person and when you see stuff online then you gotta kinda put the puzzle together. Sorry if its no help to you zale but I don't know how much better I can word it out.
 
If this works I'm going to include boot size on sales rep employment applications.
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If this works I'm going to include boot size on sales rep employment applications.
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I personally think this will make you more money pricing tree's this way. Soon enough alot of people are going to be using this formula to price tree's and it may make them a killer profit. Bfore you actually do this go out in your yard and look at and think of the price you would cut it down for and then price it up like the way I say and see what the difference would be.
 
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If this works I'm going to include boot size on sales rep employment applications.

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That's pretty funny! Clowns will make us rich . . .
 
If I understand your 'formula'...its based on a dripline diameter and $100/foot rate. Or did I miss something?

If so...it's going to have to have some more modifiers. How would you bid a Lombardy poplar which has no crown spread?

We're dealing with trees which grow in cubic space not linear. Any sort of formula must incorporated pi and the effect of pi on the change in diameter.

Stump grinders who charge on a flat rate based on diameter will soon go broke because of the effect of pi on the volume of the diameter and sphere.

Thanks for the chuckle Arch! Its good that I was done drinking coffee for the day :)
 
Tom, Just "step off" the front and side of the tree and that will be the base pay of the job. Only step off the size of the trunk of the tree. Your not stepping off the the whole width of the canopy. Do you get what I'm trying to say. I think I might be better off making a video and posting it here so people get it better.
 
I'm sorry I don't mean to be mean but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I've been pricing tree removals for 17 years and one things for sure there is no fromula that fit all trees. You just know from experience how long it will take to take down and clean up and price accordingly.
 
Calling it one of the dumbest things you've ever heard is probably a little harsh. The method does increase the price as tree diameter increases and it does increase the price when working over obstacles. So that's not necessarily a bad start. Add a few (or a lot) more modifiers, and voilà, you have a good formula.

Losing money will put a hasty end to underbidding. It's overbidding and losing an otherwise profitable job that can only be rectified by accounting acumen and field experience.

Make a video Donald and show us how it works.
 
I gotta agree with Jermey. There is no solid formula on how to bid removals. Years of experience doing the removals will give you a really good idea of how long it will take and how much you should add in for being a PITA.
 
I don't get this either. It doesn't take into account so much.

I've begun doing estimates occasionally for all the types of work we do, removals, pruning, grinding, whatever.... to give the boss a break, so I probably have a ton to learn.

It just comes down to - how long will this take? I know the rate.

Things I factor in to decide how long:
On major pruning of large trees and removals - Can the tree be dropped or does it have to come apart in chunks.
Hazards?
Where is the access?
How far to the truck?
How many yards/gardens do we have to access?
Clean-up - related to above on access - but for example in winter the branches on a dropped spruce shatter into little bits and clean up is just awful, as opposed to summer where it stays more intact.
On the other hand, work is harder to find in winter, so maybe factor that in too.

I am sure some of my estimates are going to be bad, but I have the advantage of probably being on the production crew of my own crappy estimate so I bet I get better fast!

Hope to learn lots from this thread from the masters.
 
you gotta take into consideration, how tall is the tree?
how accessible is it?
can you just drop the pieces or do you have to rig it?
how dead is it?(how dead it is is a safety factor)
do they want you to chip and haul or leave the chips?
do they want the wood for fire?
how many hours will it take you?

this is all stuff to keep in mind when bidding a job. dont just be the cheaper guy to get the job. i only under bid on palms. i never under bid removals or pruning. if people start seeing your the low balller all the time they wont take you as a serious professional. our work is dangerous and a specialty skill, therefor it costs a good bit of money.
my base price is about 50 per man hour and i pay my groundys $15-20 an hour so i figure that in the bid, on top of what i mentioned above. if the tree is more dangerous and has to be rigged down then the price increases. eatch tree is different and thus needs to be bid differently. you cant bid eatch job with the DWI DUI dance. haha im sorry but thats the most amateur thing i have heard in a long time. the hackers/toppers here have a better system then you.
 
Most companys work off from a man hour rate. The sales men looks at the tree estimates how many man hours will go into the removal of tree. Then of course there is tipping fees to dump the wood and chips to be figured into the price. Some of our municiple contracts are based on a diameter scale but we make up for it on the volume of work we do for those municipalities. But who am I to explain this to the tree buzz, just makes more sense then doing the dwi dance in front of customers.
 
Many factors go into the bid. I usually screw up the ones where I like the people. I just finished a sad underbid because of that. At the end of the job I wouldn't of cared if I was making toys for Santa Claus. I need to make money.
I got fooled by not catching how thick spruce get after topping. Should of known. Anyway.

Terrain, distance to job, cleanup requirements and other surprises need to be considered. Just don't worry about one bad bid, but check your numbers at the end of the month or year. That will let you know how you're doing.

As often as I can I will bid as climbers and flop 'em. Good to be in a position to do the extra work if you missed something, like a really windy day.
 
Maybe I should have never posted this cause all you guys wanna do is complain how this might work. I know it was worked for me so far on the couple trees I have priced doing it my way and I'm happy with them prices. What I'm trying to say is that your only stepping off the width and depth of the tree truck and per each step is $100 and that should be right about the base pay the tree should cost to take down. If your not happy with the price you came up with then add more to the cost. If you step a tree off with a 5 step width and a 5 step depth then that would be $1000 total and then each limb that needs rigged down thats like over a house or powerline or other type of structure then charge $100 extra for each limb. After you come up with the price and if height of the tree is a big deal to you then ADD MORE. You guys may think I'm stupid but I think this works out really good. If you don't like they way I do it then don't give it a try I don't care what you do but and you can stick to the way you do things. I think this its a good way to price tree's and the guy who showed me how to do this never lost money or under bid a job doing it this way.
 
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