Neruo Divergence (ND). In arboriculture

[Serf Life]

Just a favorite lyric from a gypsy punk band. It pops up in my brain a lot these days. I miss many things that I experienced in the past and have nostalgia tinted glasses too. I miss the days before cell phones arrived…

 

[evo]

Just a favorite lyric from a gypsy punk band. It pops up in my brain a lot these days. I miss many things that I experienced in the past and have nostalgia tinted glasses too. I miss the days before cell phones arrived…

What band?

 

[SeanRuel]

I mean gypsy punk, gotta be Gogol Bordello

 

[evo]

Ha! I highly recommend ‘black cat, white cat’ great sound track but the movie is very much worth while.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

What a strange way to view life. Is it not possible to think of one without resorting to the other?

Regarding ND, it is not much of a stretch to recognize that tree work attracts a very specific type of individual.

Well, then too, only a narrow band of that prototype survives let alone thrives in the raw Neanderthalic environment of rawest risks, loads, other forces , tricks and traps!

 

[moss]

Haha, cool topic! Is it fair to say we are talking about climbing arborists in particular as opposed to all of the working roles in the industry? To broaden it out there's all the climbers out there doing canopy research or environmental support projects of one kind or the other. It would be easy to come up with examples of research climbers who fit the general ND categorization. And then the rec climbers, another subset to look at.

And there are weirdos like me and some of you as well who smudge across all of the above categories and more (here come the ADHD accusations again!) ;-) This includes the "I can't help it" inventor types, you know who you are. The deep physics/rigging thinkers and the home-grown tree biology and forest ecosystem thinkers who bring a lot to the community.

Where would one begin? If I was going to start drawing visual diagrams showing "personality" or "behavioral" types in arboriculture it would get complicated very quickly. There are stereotypes and there is the actual diversity of individual human types.

I'll probably never move to a mountain monastery but I've been looking at some of the "modern" Buddhist thought out there. Something of particular interest to me is the concept of mind/body integration, ie: the mind is the body, the body is the mind. Our dominant Western based culture tends to think of the brain/consciousness as a separate entity from the body. An alternate view is that our hands/arms/legs etc are our brain/consciousness too and conversely our brain/consciousness is our body.

I mention this because when we talk about IQ I would say that arborist climbers have very high body IQ. Watch your hands tie a knot or hitch, or an experienced climber flow through the crown of a tree, the body IQ is huge. And so on.

I am on the side that believes ND/Autism/ADHD etc etc are not intrinsically pathological, they represent the diversity of human consciousness "styles". ND is inconvenient for our educational and work infrastructures. Medication allows a young ND diagnosed student to sit still in classroom.

It makes sense that those who require their body to be as engaged as their brain in their daily life would be attracted to climbing arboriculture. On the rec side climbing it can be a direct practice to counter the toxic drudgery of a 9-5 sit on your butt work life. The purpose whether known to the rec climbing practioner or not is to re-integrate mind and body, a welcome relief no matter what your neuro type is.
-AJ

 

[moss]

And why not go for it...

As far as drinking and drugging goes in the industry, that's all very complicated. But, a climber charging against mountains of difficulty every day is going to suffer. At the end of the day there's the feeling of great accomplishment, or defeat. Sometimes both at the same time. To flip the consciousness switch very quickly is super attractive. I've put down a pint of ale way too fast at the end of a hard day, I'm sure many of you have.

What does this have to do with ND? Alot. More to explore.
-AJ

 

[evo]

And why not go for it...

As far as drinking and drugging goes in the industry, that's all very complicated. But, a climber charging against mountains of difficulty every day is going to suffer. At the end of the day there's the feeling of great accomplishment, or defeat. Sometimes both at the same time. To flip the consciousness switch very quickly is super attractive. I've put down a pint of ale way too fast at the end of a hard day, I'm sure many of you have.

What does this have to do with ND? Alot. More to explore.
-AJ

Very good posts. And I’m juggling breakfast before work, along with the kid..

Psychology has a flawed foundation as a science, it’s roots are in the eugenics movements! Hence all the othering language and disfunction/disorder terminology. This is changing and going through somewhat of a revolution, within this there is the push to normalize the abnormal. It’s more than sad at how little research there is in ND brain wiring, and it is a very complex field. Add in other modern tools like DNA and complex brain imagery patterns develop, the kicker though is the patterns are too complex for our current understanding.
IQ is simply a construct with little measurable relevance. I do hear and fully agree with your point, there are many many many forms of intelligence. A past passion and chip on my shoulder was when I studied herpitology and the fucked up notion that reptiles are these evolutionary ‘slugs’ so to speak. That’s they are under evolved and have little to no intelligence. It’s my belief they are so highly evolved (which is true)) that they don’t need a intellect per say, because they are highly intelligent beings. They have sensory organs we cannot fathom. Modified optical nerves that ‘see’ UV, a sense of smell so refined they have a unique organ to read smell, cells that change color for a form of communication as well as thermoregulation.. blah blah…. Can they do math? No but they sure as hell don’t need to (if they did they likely would have evolved to do so).
Have to get my ass out the door.

 

[dspacio]

I was laughing at this quote from @Tom Dunlap article here :

"I bought a book by John Stuart Martin titled “The Homeowners Tree Book.” In the chapter called Pirates, Gypsies and Nobleman, he writes, “… that any man content to earn their living by climbing trees has to be a little ‘tetched’ to start with. They have to be lean, muscular, nerveless, and somehow persuaded that trees are challenging. ... .” This book was written in 1962. Not much has changed,"...

I haven't met a climber who isn't a bit "divergent";
yet I see the deeper and honest inquiry being made here.

Krishnamurti said "It is no great thing, being well-adjusted to a sick society" and this logic makes me wonder what one is being "divergent from." (and I understand you are aware of the shifting connotations around said spectrums etc.)

pardon I am not giving much of an answer. my lady thinks I am on the spectrum. I have also been climbing trees since I could reach the branches. I don't know that I diverged; I think it's a world that forgot every natural rhythm, and now even forgets what it is to be part of mankind at all; long gone being part of the living earth systems.. I say they are Divergent from Nature and the truths of life, beauty, love and death. I remain of the brilliant flowing mind and pattern as many of my old and ancient fathers before.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

@dspacio Wow! You went deep to find that one!

I laughed out loud when I read it the first time! It's very true.

Before PTSD was defined it went by many names..shell shock, etc. There are plenty of things that we recognize but don't realize that they are a 'thing'.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Wow, Krishnamurti - "Think on These Things".
Alone in the air, goggles and earplugs doing my thang smoothly, eyes just inspectors of the fingers aftermath, much time for these thoughts in some kind of pure zone.
.
in the various studies of movement science and awareness we can see not just a brain knowledge, but body knowledge from the actual doings. With very subtle, unwritten lessons. Developing a 'feel' when have tuned into the right frequency of the work flow and what Naturally follows from this now.
.
We work with the rawest of forces, touching deep things closer than most.
And part of experience is drenching in unwritten lessons, making sense of things, but even more at this level of rawness.
.
In the series Outsiders (not the movie that intro'd like 8 future stars) , the towns people were afraid of the closer to Nature works Outsiders, and talked about the town being so buffered from their raw realties that they have forgotten words to what the Outsiders just knew innately. Tree folk that can pick up on what is going on around them, can get 1 heck of an education in life, i think i have. And know things innately, that others don't have words for; from the subtle unwritten lessons that even when scream out, must have ears for to see.
.
Pitting yourself to the line of can and can't daily, hourly and surpassing it gives certain understandings of the workings of everything at your most sensitive point to any change, like a more sensitive scale. And then also know more of yourself, and how to coach self thru. Cuz there ain't no one to coach you generally 85' up on a thinning lateral. Just walking away whole after, means you just had to L-earn at least 1 thing commoners don't pick up on..even if it is just about yourself.
.
Tree climbing is parallels the most proper exercise of our most similar biology and structure type. The crunching and expanding abdominals is like ALL other animates usage of form of locomotion massaging internals. Only our constant upright walking does not do this function. In the Eastern mindset can't think clearly if abdominals and breathing not correct.

 

[moss]

Wow, Krishnamurti - "Think on These Things".
Alone in the air, goggles and earplugs doing my thang smoothly, eyes just inspectors of the fingers aftermath, much time for these thoughts in some kind of pure zone.
.
in the various studies of movement science and awareness we can see not just a brain knowledge, but body knowledge from the actual doings. With very subtle, unwritten lessons. Developing a 'feel' when have tuned into the right frequency of the work flow and what Naturally follows from this now.
.
We work with the rawest of forces, touching deep things closer than most.
And part of experience is drenching in unwritten lessons, making sense of things, but even more at this level of rawness.
.
In the series Outsiders (not the movie that intro'd like 8 future stars) , the towns people were afraid of the closer to Nature works Outsiders, and talked about the town being so buffered from their raw realties that they have forgotten words to what the Outsiders just knew innately. Tree folk that can pick up on what is going on around them, can get 1 heck of an education in life, i think i have. And know things innately, that others don't have words for; from the subtle unwritten lessons that even when scream out, must have ears for to see.
.
Pitting yourself to the line of can and can't daily, hourly and surpassing it gives certain understandings of the workings of everything at your most sensitive point to any change, like a more sensitive scale. And then also know more of yourself, and how to coach self thru. Cuz there ain't no one to coach you generally 85' up on a thinning lateral. Just walking away whole after, means you just had to L-earn at least 1 thing commoners don't pick up on..even if it is just about yourself.
.
Tree climbing is parallels the most proper exercise of our most similar biology and structure type. The crunching and expanding abdominals is like ALL other animates usage of form of locomotion massaging internals. Only our constant upright walking does not do this function. In the Eastern mindset can't think clearly if abdominals and breathing not correct.

The above entry needs to go into the inner titanium chamber of the permanent Buzz Scrolls Vault!

"Cuz there ain't no one to coach you generally 85' up on a thinning lateral. Just walking away whole after, means you just had to L-earn at least 1 thing commoners don't pick up on..even if it is just about yourself."
-AJ

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Haha, cool topic! Is it fair to say we are talking about climbing arborists in particular as opposed to all of the working roles in the industry? To broaden it out there's all the climbers out there doing canopy research or environmental support projects of one kind or the other. It would be easy to come up with examples of research climbers who fit the general ND categorization. And then the rec climbers, another subset to look at.

And there are weirdos like me and some of you as well who smudge across all of the above categories and more (here come the ADHD accusations again!) ;-) This includes the "I can't help it" inventor types, you know who you are. The deep physics/rigging thinkers and the home-grown tree biology and forest ecosystem thinkers who bring a lot to the community.

Where would one begin? If I was going to start drawing visual diagrams showing "personality" or "behavioral" types in arboriculture it would get complicated very quickly. There are stereotypes and there is the actual diversity of individual human types.

I'll probably never move to a mountain monastery but I've been looking at some of the "modern" Buddhist thought out there. Something of particular interest to me is the concept of mind/body integration, ie: the mind is the body, the body is the mind. Our dominant Western based culture tends to think of the brain/consciousness as a separate entity from the body. An alternate view is that our hands/arms/legs etc are our brain/consciousness too and conversely our brain/consciousness is our body.

I mention this because when we talk about IQ I would say that arborist climbers have very high body IQ. Watch your hands tie a knot or hitch, or an experienced climber flow through the crown of a tree, the body IQ is huge. And so on.

I am on the side that believes ND/Autism/ADHD etc etc are not intrinsically pathological, they represent the diversity of human consciousness "styles". ND is inconvenient for our educational and work infrastructures. Medication allows a young ND diagnosed student to sit still in classroom.

It makes sense that those who require their body to be as engaged as their brain in their daily life would be attracted to climbing arboriculture. On the rec side climbing it can be a direct practice to counter the toxic drudgery of a 9-5 sit on your butt work life. The purpose whether known to the rec climbing practioner or not is to re-integrate mind and body, a welcome relief no matter what your neuro type is.
-AJ

This is an amazing post and worth a re-read.

I was thinking about this idea today and had a vague memory of this thread. Bumping it to get a bigger sample size (Your vote counts! Lol)

I changed my vote. One day I started looking around and realized all my closest friends are autistic/ADHD..

 

[TreeCo]

This thread has me looking into the subject and associated subjects for the past four hours.

Count me in!