My take on the DOT requirements after today.

monkeylove said:
Really???



The guy gets pulled over with a 8,5000lb truck and a generator in tow with no weight on it. They take him to a weigh station and weigh the combo and it reads 16,000lbs. The guy still thinks he is good. They now weigh just the trailer, it has a weight of 7,500lbs. Now the cop goes to the door jam a shows him where it says 10,000 GVW. Take that 10,000 and add the 7,500 and you are over the 17,000. This is usually where the argument starts but in the end the poor guy has to leave the trailer since he has no DOT# and can not legally tow it away. He also leaves on average of about $2500-$3000 dollars worth of fines. If the truck had gotten a number the 500lbs would have cost him nothing but time.
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Seems like youre confusing GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) with GVCW (Gross Vehicle Combined Weight) .
 
Jeesh I feel sorry for you guys in the states Frank, much easier in Canada to obtain something like that! We have something called a CVOR for vehicles over 4500 kg's. Used to be you just walk in and fill out a quick application and bam there you go, but now it's a different process thanks to a few certain individual types ! apply, write a very easy test and pay your $250.00. Sounds like a lot of hoops you guys have to jump through there!
 
AmericanArborist said:
Seems like youre confusing GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) with GVCW (Gross Vehicle Combined Weight) .
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Not me. That's how it was explained to me when I spoke to them. Basically any GVW over 10,000 and any GVCW over 17,000. Especially if you cross state lines or drive outside the 100 air-miles radius consistently. But they whole thing is a giant cluster f.... grey area.
 
So I got my letter for the newly registered audit. Uploaded everything I think they want based on their examples and what I have that matches closely or exactly. Threw some extra uploads in their of the fire extinguisher and such. Guess we will see how this plays out.
 
So I got a call today from my DOT guy. Everything I sent him looked good except....My GL insurance. Apparently a little know fact is that if you trailer anything that has an internal combustion engine (chipper, stump grinder, Aerial lift, Lawnmower, Generator......) you are now considered class 9 Hazmat. No special license or placards but you must carry a 1 million dollar GL policy on the business as a minimum. So I am getting some quotes to raise my policy amount.
 
Oh it gets better. The DOT wants a MCS-90 form. My insurance won't give them one because it is a commercial auto policy addendum not a general GL form. My truck is not owned by my business it is owned by me personally. So personally I can't get the form and business auto means I can't drive it everyday personally back and forth to my regular job. WTF....Then the DOT says "If you tell me that you won't pull the chipper with your magnetic DOT numbers on the truck, then you don't need the form. After all it only needs to be compliant when the numbers are on". Again, WTF really.....

Can you guess how I answered that.
 
My build on the chip truck isn't finished. So I haven't done the DOT thing yet. It's on the road, but I have no use for a dumping flat bed. So it sits waiting to be finished. I can only begin to wonder what I'll have to go thru here in Princess Cuomo land. The thought makes me feel like saying the heck with it and put her up for sale.
 
I mentioned to my guy that the whole process is a crap shoot. Between lack of information, an abundance of misinformation, and wide spread confusion between enforcement personnel on what the regulations say. He actually agreed and said that they have talked about doing public events but that the regulations change so often lately that any information given may be obsolete or modified by the time we got home. He said the website is the best place for current information and regulations, but you need to understand Latin to understand most of it.
 
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Cornelius Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)

When you reach the point where good people are actively seeking to comply with the law and still CAN'T, even with "expert" help, can we agree that something's wrong? Great example of overregulation.

Sorry for derail..... I feel frustrated for you guys and I'm not even involved.
 
monkeylove said:
I mentioned to my guy that the whole process is a crap shoot. Between lack of information, an abundance of misinformation, and wide spread confusion between enforcement personnel on what the regulations say. He actually agreed and said that they have talked about doing public events but that the regulations change so often lately that any information given may be obsolete or modified by the time we got home. He said the website is the best place for current information and regulations, but you need to understand Latin to understand most of it.
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On feb 2 gap power is going to have an open house. One of the classes at this shin dig will be a DOT enforcement gig. I’ll try to find the paperwork on it tomorrow. And the best thing is it’s free of charge... but I think you need to register. If you swing by my place frank I’ll drive, I’m pretty sure I’m going out anyway... they have a bunch of stuff on auction that day!
 
monkeylove said:
Oh it gets better. The DOT wants a MCS-90 form. My insurance won't give them one because it is a commercial auto policy addendum not a general GL form. My truck is not owned by my business it is owned by me personally. So personally I can't get the form and business auto means I can't drive it everyday personally back and forth to my regular job. WTF....Then the DOT says "If you tell me that you won't pull the chipper with your magnetic DOT numbers on the truck, then you don't need the form. After all it only needs to be compliant when the numbers are on". Again, WTF really.....

Can you guess how I answered that.
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I provided my GL policy, inland marine and my commercial auto policy. My one truck is owned personally too. The only form I had to fill out extra was the mcs 150... and my audit guy messed me up on that one saying my dump trailer equals a motorized vehicle. But it’s an easy fix every time I register my UCR annually.
 
I know this is apples and oranges, but try Washington dept of labor and industries. It’s a mess.. nothing between tree removal specialists, stump grinding, and landscaping. I was shooting for pruning only. They guy on the phone said he didn’t care how high up I was, but if the limb I was cutting was between 1-2 inches I can be a landscaper but if was cutting something greater than 3-4” it had a rope on it it’s removal.
Also I just found out under the Wa Dor I’m listed under janitorial services?!? Some one messed up punching buttons.. Then in October I found out the company I’m bonded through somehow accessed my state L&I account hit the wrong date for my GL expiration. So my contractors license was suspended and I had to pay fees to get it reinstated. I can go on and on..

But here is the reason for responding to those more versed than I. How do you transfer a vechile with a existing Dot number? I just bought a new to me truck already registered, is this just taken care of with the title swap? New numbers?
 
What’s the weight. Over 55k? The numbers belong to the carrier not the truck itself. They identify a truck as property of the carrier. Make sense? Probably not so short answer. No transfer.
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
On feb 2 gap power is going to have an open house. One of the classes at this shin dig will be a DOT enforcement gig. I’ll try to find the paperwork on it tomorrow. And the best thing is it’s free of charge... but I think you need to register. If you swing by my place frank I’ll drive, I’m pretty sure I’m going out anyway... they have a bunch of stuff on auction that day!
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I will let you know Mert. I got a rush job in work that will probably make that impossible to attend but I will keep it in mind and print out the flyers. I found them at Gap's website.
 
Reading through this and being from Pa has me a little concerned. I see the DOT sting opps pretty regular, mostly with tractor trailers and triaxles, didn't think they messed with the little guys. Pulls wool over my eyes. So if my truck has a registered 10,000# GVW I can only legally haul a 6999# trailer without having a DOT number? So the 17,000 limit is the GVW of the truck plus the weight of the trailer and not the actual weight of the truck? That seems odd, because at my local stone quarry they will not let you leave with a load that is overweight. When you go there for the first time you weigh the truck and trailer together, then weigh the trailer alone. You give them the registration for both truck and trailer and "they" tell you how much you can legally haul. I've been over by less than 100# and they make you dump it off and reload. If I remember correctly when I leave the quarry loaded my GVCW is between 15,000 and 16,000#.
 
Windwalker said:
Reading through this and being from Pa has me a little concerned. I see the DOT sting opps pretty regular, mostly with tractor trailers and triaxles, didn't think they messed with the little guys. Pulls wool over my eyes. So if my truck has a registered 10,000# GVW I can only legally haul a 6999# trailer without having a DOT number? So the 17,000 limit is the GVW of the truck plus the weight of the trailer and not the actual weight of the truck? That seems odd, because at my local stone quarry they will not let you leave with a load that is overweight. When you go there for the first time you weigh the truck and trailer together, then weigh the trailer alone. You give them the registration for both truck and trailer and "they" tell you how much you can legally haul. I've been over by less than 100# and they make you dump it off and reload. If I remember correctly when I leave the quarry loaded my GVCW is between 15,000 and 16,000#.
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DOT looks at the gross combination weight rating for the DOT numbers. If your truck and trailer is rated over 10k and you travel out of state USDOT numbers and UCR registration are required. If you stay in state that number increases to 17k. So if I didn’t drivel to DE my 11.5k pickup would not need dot numbers. But because it’s over state lines I do. Another gray area that most don’t even pay attention to is chipper and stump grinders. In PA they do not need to be registered with the state (no registered weight), but when you get pulled over they will weigh it and its actual weight is part of that calculation. And if not compliant fines will insue. They certainly do not let “the little guys” off the hook here. They started nabbing every landscaper with a truck and trailer and word quickly got around. Guys were scrambling to get this stuff done. They got my buddy for numbers but no name and home base. When the weather warms up they will be back at it again doing road side inspections. We have two or three townships who sent their troopers to DOT classes so they can make stops too. So around here everyone is trying to get some of that income.
 
Looking into this a little farther, my truck is registered for 9,000#. My chipper and sawmill both weigh about 3,000#, so that falls well below the 17,000 limit. However my dump trailer and equipment trailer are registered for 10,000#. So according to what you are saying whenever I haul my dump trailer, regardless of if it is loaded or empty, I should have DOT numbers? Its just a 2500 pick up, I added bumper stops on the springs so it doesn't sag even when its fully loaded with chips and the chipper. If you don't look like you are grossly overweight and don't throw any red flags, I always felt like they wouldn't bother you. It sounds like a royal pain in the ass to go through what you're going through to get the DOT numbers.
 
Windwalker said:
Looking into this a little farther, my truck is registered for 9,000#. My chipper and sawmill both weigh about 3,000#, so that falls well below the 17,000 limit. However my dump trailer and equipment trailer are registered for 10,000#. So according to what you are saying whenever I haul my dump trailer, regardless of if it is loaded or empty, I should have DOT numbers? Its just a 2500 pick up, I added bumper stops on the springs so it doesn't sag even when its fully loaded with chips and the chipper. If you don't look like you are grossly overweight and don't throw any red flags, I always felt like they wouldn't bother you. It sounds like a royal pain in the ass to go through what you're going through to get the DOT numbers.
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That is correct. When towing the 10k trailers you would be required to have DOT numbers loaded or not (as your weight could be 19K). As for the chipper and saw mill if you go out of state you would be required as well (10,ooo pound limit).
DOT numbers are a pain but free for us as we do not haul other peoples products. The UCR is less than $100 a year for 2 trucks. Once you are set up, and the audit of over (really its not much of an audit) its just maintaining it, just like your registration or inspection.
If they want to stop you they will whether you look iffy or not. The cost to be compliant is much less than the fines and down time for not following the rules. I had a cop nab me on a weekend hauling my tractor back from my father in-law's (non paying job) for lack of DOT numbers. I respectfully argued it with him and he cut me a break. Gave me a $125 fine rather than the $500 for my first DOT offence. I had numbers that following week.
 
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