- Location
- WA, Skagit County
Hi people, we did a unique tree thinning job on a large fir. I made a video about it. Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNagBnySkiY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNagBnySkiY
My New Video: featuring Ziplining Branches
- Thread starter Olly
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Hey Olly. Welcome to the Buzz. Good to have another WA member aboard.
Looks like a job well done. Bet those folks will sleep better at night if/when we get some winter winds.
Was that tree intentionally topped, or storm-topped?
Looks like a job well done. Bet those folks will sleep better at night if/when we get some winter winds.
Was that tree intentionally topped, or storm-topped?
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
Hi Sean,
I am meeting that tree a few decades after the original topping. All evidence leads to originally being intentionally topped. That would be a pretty scary tree to live under had it not been topped. Amazing how a healthy Doug can close over the wound.
Do you enter the PNWISA ITCCs?
Dan O
Skagit County, WA
I am meeting that tree a few decades after the original topping. All evidence leads to originally being intentionally topped. That would be a pretty scary tree to live under had it not been topped. Amazing how a healthy Doug can close over the wound.
Do you enter the PNWISA ITCCs?
Dan O
Skagit County, WA
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
And who says that topping trees is bad, when they can close over like that.
Just kidding...but it does go to show you what a healthy Doug is capable of doing.
Nice work guys!
Just kidding...but it does go to show you what a healthy Doug is capable of doing.
Nice work guys!
- Location
- Penticton, British Columbia
Great work, very good work plan and execution.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Nice job. It looked a bit severe during some of the cuts, but the overall shot at the end showed a good finished product. I like what you sold there, a solution to keep the tree 'viable' while avoiding removal. Nice.
The high line looks like it was fun!
-Tom
The high line looks like it was fun!
-Tom
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Sean,
Do you enter the PNWISA ITCCs?
Dan O
Skagit County, WA
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't entered. I helped with some prep and tech-ing for the Puget Sound Regional TCC in Olympia this summer. It was a good experience.
I might enter one in the future. We'll see. More likely to help out again in Portland next year, though I'm sorta more interested helping in a potential climbers' training workshop. I think that more hands-on training opportunities at ISA functions would benefit people and trees more that competing. Talking to people at the Coeur d'Alane conference solidified that idea to me. People learning better ways to get to the tips for end-weight reduction would help retain more big doug-firs.
Hi Sean,
Do you enter the PNWISA ITCCs?
Dan O
Skagit County, WA
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't entered. I helped with some prep and tech-ing for the Puget Sound Regional TCC in Olympia this summer. It was a good experience.
I might enter one in the future. We'll see. More likely to help out again in Portland next year, though I'm sorta more interested helping in a potential climbers' training workshop. I think that more hands-on training opportunities at ISA functions would benefit people and trees more that competing. Talking to people at the Coeur d'Alane conference solidified that idea to me. People learning better ways to get to the tips for end-weight reduction would help retain more big doug-firs.
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
I bought an album off of itunes for the first part called "Scottish Bagpipes." We gave up trying to find free good songs. The second track was a freebee off of the imovie program I used on my mac. I did this vid with my nine year old son. Lots of fun.
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
Sean,
I entered the Olympia comp, so we have almost met. I did poorly. I kept thinking I wish there was an event to see who could wreck a tree the fastest. Anyhow I benefit so much as a climber from entering. I plan to go to Portland so will have to look for you.
cheers-
I entered the Olympia comp, so we have almost met. I did poorly. I kept thinking I wish there was an event to see who could wreck a tree the fastest. Anyhow I benefit so much as a climber from entering. I plan to go to Portland so will have to look for you.
cheers-
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
"The high line looks like it was fun!"
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I do not recommend the high line. It was super duper bouncy - very different from climbing off a fixed point. It was akin to walking on the moon. It would take about three arm movements to get the belly out of the line to actually start climbing. ... but I think it was my only option for the high work.
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I do not recommend the high line. It was super duper bouncy - very different from climbing off a fixed point. It was akin to walking on the moon. It would take about three arm movements to get the belly out of the line to actually start climbing. ... but I think it was my only option for the high work.
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
I've seen 36" diam. one foot high doug fir stumps seal themselves. Amazingly hard to kill a tree in a rainforest.
Nice work, Olly. Couple questions, man;
Just curious how you set up the tight line. Was it more or less terminated into each tree, allowing the two stems to flex inward when loaded, or did you 'back up' the trees with diagonal ties? Hope that question made sense...
Also, how does a Fir respond to subordination like that? Does new growth continue laterally, or will some vertical growth form? Maybe you've got some more work down the road to keep that tree in check!
Just curious how you set up the tight line. Was it more or less terminated into each tree, allowing the two stems to flex inward when loaded, or did you 'back up' the trees with diagonal ties? Hope that question made sense...
Also, how does a Fir respond to subordination like that? Does new growth continue laterally, or will some vertical growth form? Maybe you've got some more work down the road to keep that tree in check!
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
Hi etree,
Referring to the two tie-off trees: I bought a 350' samson stable braid 1/2 rope, climbed up the first tree leaving the bulk of the rope paying out at the bottom. At the top of that first tree I directed the rope around the top in such a fashion that I it would not be relying on just a branch for the load, then I coiled up a section and threw it into the topped fir in the middle. So there was no gear involved. I wanted the retrieval to be simple. As seen in the video, my employee is in the next tree when I got up the topped tree, he threw his climb line in to me and I secured the tight line rope. He then directed it securely through the top of the second tie-off fir and carried it down. All spurless. The tight line rope was then tied off at the base of the first tree and then we tightened it up with a GRCS at the base of the termination tree. I think this took about two hours to do. There were no guy lines securing the tops of the two trees, they just flexed. I have enough experience with Doug Firs to rely on them like this, but it still felt quite sketchy. There was not enough in the bid to justify much more time on the set up.
I think I understand what you mean by subordination. The side branches do start to grow vertical in these firs. What is this.... "auxin"?. There is a Doug Fir I know of that was topped even lower and has huge laterals that have grown into a vertical canopy. I think its a beautiful tree.
I imagine getting in there with a crane 5 or 10 years from now and reducing the crown by another 30 feet.
best regards! thanks for your comments.
Referring to the two tie-off trees: I bought a 350' samson stable braid 1/2 rope, climbed up the first tree leaving the bulk of the rope paying out at the bottom. At the top of that first tree I directed the rope around the top in such a fashion that I it would not be relying on just a branch for the load, then I coiled up a section and threw it into the topped fir in the middle. So there was no gear involved. I wanted the retrieval to be simple. As seen in the video, my employee is in the next tree when I got up the topped tree, he threw his climb line in to me and I secured the tight line rope. He then directed it securely through the top of the second tie-off fir and carried it down. All spurless. The tight line rope was then tied off at the base of the first tree and then we tightened it up with a GRCS at the base of the termination tree. I think this took about two hours to do. There were no guy lines securing the tops of the two trees, they just flexed. I have enough experience with Doug Firs to rely on them like this, but it still felt quite sketchy. There was not enough in the bid to justify much more time on the set up.
I think I understand what you mean by subordination. The side branches do start to grow vertical in these firs. What is this.... "auxin"?. There is a Doug Fir I know of that was topped even lower and has huge laterals that have grown into a vertical canopy. I think its a beautiful tree.
I imagine getting in there with a crane 5 or 10 years from now and reducing the crown by another 30 feet.
best regards! thanks for your comments.
Nice explanation of the tie in. I'm wondering if a cable and fiddle block could have been set up rather quickly with less 'bounce'. No matter...you got the job done well. 
Probably better than an M-system in that situation.
Subordination is terminal suppression, or cutting back to another limb well suited to become the leader and maintain support of the limb, overall. Sometimes, too much limb reduction results in undesired growth, and we have done a number of jobs that schedule limb reduction in stages over time to prevent buds from breaking open into undesired growth. The climbing can be difficult because you are sometimes limb walking out through delicate growth that you need to maintain, rather than cut out to ease access.
Some Pine and Spruce in my area get injured or topped and produce multiple vertical stems as a result. I've seen some of these stems form longitudinal cracks as a result of rotational torquing. I've done a few jobs that balanced or reduced said stem growth to prevent those cracks from occurring.
Probably better than an M-system in that situation.Subordination is terminal suppression, or cutting back to another limb well suited to become the leader and maintain support of the limb, overall. Sometimes, too much limb reduction results in undesired growth, and we have done a number of jobs that schedule limb reduction in stages over time to prevent buds from breaking open into undesired growth. The climbing can be difficult because you are sometimes limb walking out through delicate growth that you need to maintain, rather than cut out to ease access.
Some Pine and Spruce in my area get injured or topped and produce multiple vertical stems as a result. I've seen some of these stems form longitudinal cracks as a result of rotational torquing. I've done a few jobs that balanced or reduced said stem growth to prevent those cracks from occurring.
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
Nice. I'm all over subordination in that usage. For this tree the more growth that is encouraged closer to the tree the better. Certainly you get a bit of dormant buds coming alive (i forget the name of these buds....) and that is the weaker growth, but I think it needs to be fostered in this situation.
What is an "M-system?" Pray tell.
What is an "M-system?" Pray tell.
SuperK
New member
- Location
- Quarryville
Great idea for the high line. Its cool to see how subordination really made the tree look better to for the end result.
Some people dont really like it at all but it is something that should be taught more. I had the privilege of being under some classes of Ed Gilman who is a strong believer in this type of pruning.
In the long run it is giving more life to the tree to keep branches with out losing them in storms because they are over extended.
Great work!
Some people dont really like it at all but it is something that should be taught more. I had the privilege of being under some classes of Ed Gilman who is a strong believer in this type of pruning.
In the long run it is giving more life to the tree to keep branches with out losing them in storms because they are over extended.
Great work!
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
thanks for leading me to the M method. that is good stuff. Don't think it would have worked as well here though...
- Location
- Penticton, British Columbia
[ QUOTE ]
I've seen 36" diam. one foot high doug fir stumps seal themselves. Amazingly hard to kill a tree in a rainforest.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now thats an interesting subject.
I've seen plenty of this on my bushwacks, but the most recent examples for me come from a mobile home park I worked in this week. There were several stumps in the 16-20" range that were in proximity to larger trees. Each stump had sealed over. The trees were interior Doug-fir and were completely sealed. (amazing)
Now its clear that these trees were not the same age, or doubles, so it would seem that the root system of the cut tree sealed the stump to prevent decay into its root systems. Presumably that is because the neighbouring trees had roots which were grafted to the cut ones, which would suggest that the surviving trees might have been at risk of being inoculated by a decay pathogen if the cut stump's root system was allowed to decay. Which brings about an amazing inference, if we allow our minds to wander a stretch.
It would appear that the cut tree's root system was signalled to act in a way that might prevent its roots from decaying. I believe we can infer at least two reasons for this:
1. The neighbouring trees' vascular system was so intertwined onto the cut trees root systems that the potential loss of shared root mass from the cut tree was unacceptable and therefore the neighbouring trees somehow communicated this to the meristematic tissue in the stump.
2. The cut tree responded to being cut and due to the amount of shared roots expended a last (I'm going to romantically call it a dying breath) in order to shield its neighbours from the potential pathogens that might seek to inhabit the fresh stumps.
Regardless, trees are amazing.
I've seen 36" diam. one foot high doug fir stumps seal themselves. Amazingly hard to kill a tree in a rainforest.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now thats an interesting subject.
I've seen plenty of this on my bushwacks, but the most recent examples for me come from a mobile home park I worked in this week. There were several stumps in the 16-20" range that were in proximity to larger trees. Each stump had sealed over. The trees were interior Doug-fir and were completely sealed. (amazing)
Now its clear that these trees were not the same age, or doubles, so it would seem that the root system of the cut tree sealed the stump to prevent decay into its root systems. Presumably that is because the neighbouring trees had roots which were grafted to the cut ones, which would suggest that the surviving trees might have been at risk of being inoculated by a decay pathogen if the cut stump's root system was allowed to decay. Which brings about an amazing inference, if we allow our minds to wander a stretch.
It would appear that the cut tree's root system was signalled to act in a way that might prevent its roots from decaying. I believe we can infer at least two reasons for this:
1. The neighbouring trees' vascular system was so intertwined onto the cut trees root systems that the potential loss of shared root mass from the cut tree was unacceptable and therefore the neighbouring trees somehow communicated this to the meristematic tissue in the stump.
2. The cut tree responded to being cut and due to the amount of shared roots expended a last (I'm going to romantically call it a dying breath) in order to shield its neighbours from the potential pathogens that might seek to inhabit the fresh stumps.
Regardless, trees are amazing.
- Location
- WA, Skagit County
I have seen this same phenomena in Doug Firs here in NW WA. I actually did not know what to make of it at the time. Notably, it was in a forest, it was Doug Fir stumps that had closed over completely, and there were other D.F. trees alive in close proximity.
Good explanations above. Sounds right.
Good explanations above. Sounds right.
