Mountain Gear/Knots in Arboriculture?

didjon

didjon

Location
Hole,Norge
After reading several threads which contained peoples arguments on the pro's and con's of french prussiks and over hand use of them.Then opinions on the use of approach boots in competitions.I thought I would try and find out what other peoples views on the subject are.
In the last few years especially in europeon TCC's there has been a move over to using friction knots and more specialist equipment from the mountaineering industry.e.g VT and Machard Friction knots Climbing boots,Cams,11mm static lines for footlock and so on.I see alot of new gadgets and climbing systems in the TCC's every year but how many of them get used and are relevent to the practising Arborist in everyday life.The V.T and rope guide is great for flying round a tree as fast as you can and ringing bells,but would you use it at work?
Approach boots are great for footlocking but would you what to catch them with a hand saw let alone chainsaw?
Is Competition climbing becoming more and more distant from the job most do?
Do the advances that come from the comp side of things make us more productive and safer in a normal day at the office?
Should the rules of comps change to keep it relevent to the job or should it run its course?

I am taking a neutral stand on this subject as I love competition with all gadgets and also love doing the job but I do separate the two.I am very interested in what others have to say on this subject.

Didj
 
The tools and techniques I have learned at comps is directly related to how I perform everyday climbing. My work setup is the same as my comp set up except my pants.
 
Hi didj;

Innovation increases the potential to apply technology
for the sake of production. When production increases,
service improves. Businesses must compete for work. When a company fails to move along with industry innovations, the ability to compete for business declines.

The competition is a way to distribute innovaton throughout the industry. Some things brought to the competitions by the best people may or may not help the masses. The new ideas will be worked by many types
of production workers and the tried and true will become industry standards.

As for safety items such as boots, perhaps this issue
is in a phase of question and not ready to be adopted
as acceptable standard industry safety gear. Time will be the judge on this issue.

Joe
 
Not so much to contests for me; but for innovations and toys i have long looked to the sides in like rope disciplines and uses for ideas, even old army manuals, for basic needs in a system.

i love my looprunners for about all loads, karabs, rescue pulleys, new knots etc. i tend to think like i am 5000' up on a shear face, and tie in etc. accordingly. Many of my personel strategies for climbing and rigging i have imagined more mountain, or rescue circumstance than tree at their inception.

i have long thought they both (mountain/ cave and rescue) have had better rope science and innovation than i saw in trees service(around here anyway). i feel that in arborculture is on such a rise of evolution, and having borrowed from both; is now maturing to give back to all; and would suspect other disciplines would now be looking 'up' to 'us' more than previoulsly as our thing comes of age.

i think that all experimenters, tweakers, sharers, contestants etc. in this passion can share a chip of the pride as mthis goes forward for all.
 
I too have always held the view that the compitions are an athletic event.
but then again, I have watched Gary Abrojena do a heck of a lot of work and do it better then most I've seen. And Mark Chisholm (sp?) flew around in the Redwood tree house and got alot of work done. So it doesent mean the two are seperate. Skills learned at work absolutly apply at the compitions.

How about the throw bag event? I use my homemade big shot all the time now and really feel at a loss without it.
Frans
 
Here's my 2 pennies.

I've noticed in the last several years that I have been competing or attending, I have started picking up certain toys as friction saver, microcender lany, split tail syst., and now french prusik. All of these have made certain aspects of the job easier. AS for climbing boots? no thanks. Ill stick w/ my redwings. Ive hit them too many times w/ a hand saw to count.

A couple of weeks ago, I was talking w/ another climber who discouraged the idea of friction savers/rope guides saying that the time he spent installing or uninstalling them over the course of a year could have bought him at least one if not two new ropes. To a certain degree, I agree, but like today using my FS in a ROUGH barked tree, Ill take the ease of no friction.

As for use in the office setting, like I tell my guys, time is money. You waste time, you waste money. If you can save time from start to finish, use them, if not loose them.

When it comes to the comp., I feel it should maintain the pro aspect of the job. I cant say I know anyone that would wear rocking boots in a tree at work.

In summary, bring on the new toys if they can be used relevant to the worker who doesn't own his own tree service and works for pennies on the dollar of the boss's income, and then has to turn around and buy his own (expensive) gear.
 
There is a lot of relevance between comp and work tools and techniques. Certainly, not 100%. If I were a competitor there would be few things that would change from my work kit.

In most other trades, the worker provides thier own tools. My car mechanics keep their roller boxes under thier key. My carpenter buddies own all of their tools. Why shouldn't arbos be buying their own tools?

The innovations from comp will generally trickle into work with some tweaking. Don't think of just the short pay back with modern tools and skills. Think of the benefits to your physical health in years to come. My Dad's hearing and respiration has been damaged from his life long work environment. I have to believe that hearing pro and dust masks would have proven beneficial to his health.

Tom
 
"the time he spent installing or uninstalling them over the course of a year could have bought him at least one if not two new ropes"

You also have to account for the time wasted fighting the friction in the rope when it wraps around a couple branches...this happens less when you use a friction saver!

love
nick
 
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