More news about modifying Butterfly saddles

[Tom Dunlap]

Hello Jim Sorry for the delay in my reply, I've been trying to get something out of Komet but it's holiday time in France and I'm not getting any reply's to my mail.

I would like to comment on your rules, but I must make it clear that this is my opinion and not an official response from Komet.
However, after past discussions, I am aware that their thinking is similar.

The Komet Butterfly harness conforms and is certified as doing so to the relevant CE standards. The slide strop does not come under these standards and is not a part which is tested. The removal, replacement or modification of the slide strop in no way affects the certification of the harness nor does it affect the integrity of the harness.

It is worth mentioning that in the UK and Europe we see one of the main advantages of the harness is the fact that it can be modified to suit individual climbing styles and techniques. This is also one of the reasons that so many competing climbers us the Butterfly. We see this as a great advantage and something which adds to the versatility of the harness. It also means that the slide strop can easily be replaced extending the life of the harnesses giving value to the user.

Your statement that for a climber to use a modified harness, they must have a statement from the manufacturer approving the modification is unrealistic, impossible and unfair and it would have been easier to simply ban the harness outright as this is in effect what the rule does.
I believe that no manufacturer in the world can offer to approve modification made by the user. The manufacturer would have to have in depth technical information about every material likely to be used and every modified harness would have to returned to the factory for a full inspection. This is totally unrealistic.

I think the whole thing needs to be put into some kind of sensible context and I ask what happens under the following circumstances. If a competitor does not remove the existing strop but simply adds an additional method of attachment then this is not a modification but an addition. The climber could then either attach only to the addition or around the addition and the existing strop. His weight would then be taken on the addition and would give the required strop length. This would technically get around your rules, facilitate the individual climbers requirements and be totally ridiculous.

In the UK, our law states that harnesses must comply with LOLER regulations. This is basically an inspection system which relies on inspection by a competent person. If everyone is realistic then I am sure that a pre competition inspection of modified harnesses by a competent person should resolve the whole issue.

I expect that quite a number of competitors from around the world wish to compete in their modified Butterfly's. To ban the harnesses at such a late stage detracts from the spirit if the event and offers the possibility of alienating competitors. This would not be good for them or the competition. Perhaps its time that pragmatism took over from dogma.

I hope you have a good and fair competition

Kind regards

David Cooper-Holmes
WORKWARE

 

[Ghivelder]

I think we are missing a major point here. All these issues regarding the butterfly modifications are relevant only if we think of daily tree care work. Doubts like “Can I give this saddle to my employees?” and “Does insurance still cover me?” surely must be solved with documents (certifications from the manufacturer and so on).
If we think of the ITCC, is a whole different matter. If in the “world outside” we can only hope to influence the law makers, here it’s up to us to decide. A gear checker it’s not a robot that blindly applies regulations (otherwise we could replace him with a software), but a climber that can put together years of experience and technical information to decide what is safe and what is not. I’m sure that a team consisting of Tom Dunlap, Rip Tompkins and others alike are in a better position to decide what can be allowed in the ITCC than even the guys from Komet. They could have bureaucratic problems to accept the replacement of the existing strop and still we could decide to consider it safe. On the other hand there are many work saddles that meet all standards and regulations but still are not suitable for tree climbing and it’s our responsability not to allow them regardless of any statement from the manufacturer.

Sergio

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Sergio,

You make good, valid points. Since the ITCC is a sporting event and not the work environment, there is great latitude in what rules apply.

I don't have any influence on what happens at the ITCC. I'm not on any committees either. this year I've volunteered to help out as a tech at gear check but decided not to judge. Instead, I'll be playing at the rec climb.

Here is a letter that was forwarded to me from B-D, the parent company of Komet.

The language leaves latitude for other modifications besides what the factory condones. The use of "should" gives some room to dance.

Looking forward to leaving on Friday!

*****

Subject:
B-D letter
Date:
Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:58:56 -0500
From:
Tom Dunlap <canopytree@earthlink.net>
To:
"Dunlap, Tom" <canopytree@earthlink.net>




file:///C|/WINDOWS/TEMP/nscomm40/tmp/tmp17/edt1.htm


BACOU-DALLOZ
35, rue de la Bidauderie
18100 Vierzon - France

Vierzon, July 24th 2003

Re : Bacou-Dalloz Butterfly Modification (on produced items, up to July 2003).

It has come to our attention, that the technical committee of the next ISA ITCC (Montreal, CA) would require the modified
Butterfly harnesses to be approved by Bacou-Dalloz, the manufacturer. We understand that the bridge strap connecting the two
rings on the Butterfly harness does not fit every person perfectly and may also wear out before any other components of the
harness would. Therefore, we feel that under certain conditions, the strap may be removed without damaging any components
(i.e. rings of leg straps) and replaced accordingly.

Here are the conditions under which such a change would be acceptable, on a safety point of view :

* The strap should be replaced with a rope, and not a sewn strap, as Bacou-Dalloz cannot identify thread strength and procedure.
* The rope diameter should be equal or above 11mm. In case of the replacement rope is passed through the aluminium rings and
the double fisherman knot is tied behind the ring (ie the knot is used as a 'monkey fist' in the ring) the rope must be of a sufficient
diameter for the double fisherman's knot not to pass through the ring. The recommended diameter is minimum 12.5mm (or 1/2
inch) 16 strands rope.
* The rope should have a breaking strength of equal or above 22kN.
* The rope should be attached to the rings by an anchoring knot (double fisherman knot).
* The total length (from ring to ring) of the strap should be 400 mm maximum.

The above mentioned modifications for each harness should be submitted to the ISA ITCC technical committee prior to use.

Béatrice Nobre,
Jr Product Manager,
Tree Pruning - Komet