More Discovery and Destruction

Excellent, thanks for sharing this!
Can you tell me the manufacturer of the slings from the first 7 minutes? I'd very much like to own a few.
 
Bob Bob said:
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If the webbing slings were girth hitched onto something thinner (like a carabiner), do you think the break strength would be less?
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No I don't think it would be much less as long as the webbing is laying flat it seems like the bend radius is so much less of an issue. For example if you take a 10 mm rope and say that it needs a X4 pulley then apply the same concept to a 1 mm thickness of webbing. So I think we can see that the strength of the webbing is certainly not going to be the issue.
 
I love the sounds of rope failure ;-)

Now on to lock stitching vs. a running stitch. No one has succeeded in breaking any of my gen2 hand stitched eyes which follow a machine pattern sewn eye. Line always breaks first, away from the eye. Not saying you're wrong about your running stitch theory but not proven right either, yet.

My only gripe with the running stitch is that if you abrade or break any part of the stitch, the entire thing can zipper. I think we saw that happen on one of the orange thread running stitch eyes, not sure. Someone might claim the government placed plastic explosives inside the running stitch eye before you pulled it ;-)

Interesting how spliced tight eyes are continuing to break lower than some of these fairly casually hand-sewn eyes. The spliced eyes are elegant but you'd hope for higher break numbers.

On a couple of the pulls, eyes sewn with Dyneema thread seemed to break right at the beginning of the stitching, the Dyneema may be cuttinng the host cordage. They're breaking high but worth noting where things break .

That weird possibly hybrid brummel/bury eye broke really high, the future of spliced eyes? Maybe more detail needed on what the construction of that splice is.

Thanks as always Richard!
-AJ
 
moss said:
I love the sounds of rope failure ;-)

Now on to lock stitching vs. a running stitch. No one has succeeded in breaking any of my gen2 hand stitched eyes which follow a machine pattern sewn eye. Line always breaks first, away from the eye. Not saying you're wrong about your running stitch theory but not proven right either, yet.

My only gripe with the running stitch is that if you abrade or break any part of the stitch, the entire thing can zipper. I think we saw that happen on one of the orange thread running stitch eyes, not sure. Someone might claim the government placed plastic explosives inside the running stitch eye before you pulled it ;-)

Interesting how spliced tight eyes are continuing to break lower than some of these fairly casually hand-sewn eyes. The spliced eyes are elegant but you'd hope for higher break numbers.

On a couple of the pulls, eyes sewn with Dyneema thread seemed to break right at the beginning of the stitching, the Dyneema may be cuttinng the host cordage. They're breaking high but worth noting where things break .

That weird possibly hybrid brummel/bury eye broke really high, the future of spliced eyes? Maybe more detail needed on what the construction of that splice is.

Thanks as always Richard!
-AJ
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First of all let me say Andrew that you are the cause of all this "nonsense". It has been a long path getting here and I'm sure you've done your best to shrug off the condemnation. I do think most of the doubt and criticism is starting to fade and turn into, eyes wide open. It's difficult to accept innovation, as I have said so many times, it is disruptive and competitive. One must be willing to play by those rules if one wants to play in the innovation game. I've found it to be a very tough sport indeed.
There will always be those that like the beauty of a hand spliced line, others the length and uniformity of the machine sewn eye others the convenience of a hand sewn eye.
So another thing, I think we will disagree on the stitch pattern and that is OK because if all people did was agree and follow the same path, nothing new would ever get discovered.
On all the tests I've done, nothing that has the running stitch, has unraveled. Seems every stitch will break just like in a lock stitch. I've done some sewing with Kevlar because of it's strength but the gains were lost due to that zipper effect that you refer and did not warrant the 5x the cost. We've seen the zipper effect, wish I had a 10,000 FPS camera, in both patterns and I think that is a cause of the miss-match in stretch of the fibers between rope thread and stitch thread. In the case I think you are referring to, that broke around 6400 on a stated 6,000 rated rope, we could see the first few give way followed quickly, VERY quickly, by the others. Rope stretches and the Dyneema does not. Advantage of the sewing machine lock stitch is that a machine can put down hundreds and make up for the strength loss of the tight bend in the tread. Advantage of the running looping pattern is that a huge thread/line can be used and doubled.
Let the experiment continue.
 
Yeah, I've done that, too... looked at 'em and thought I might be pushing my luck using them for a TIP on a second line, or a redirect. But, seeing them consistently break well above the rating... even used ones and misconfigured ones... that's awesome.
 
bull-nosed-choke-sling.png


Very Nice, thanx!
May you try this sometime please?
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To theory would seek to only have simple turn on host mount
>>to leave as much power remaining for Round Turn grip around Standing Part/eye.
And dress so all lays nicely, relaxed, not twerked(as suspect you would).
i always imagine pre-stress as like twisted metal, to be easily leveraged against device more when loaded.
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per extended theory of ABoK lesson#1669. ".... If the rope is weak and the hoist is heavy, a round tum on the standing part adds materially to the strength of the knot."
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ABoK shows as Fig.8 w/Round Turn.
ABoK seems to favor Fig.8 style of Half-Hitches, Timber-Hitch etc. whereby take Half-Hitch around Standing Part, then over self before tucking to Nip. Giving extra friction reduction before Nip, and then Nips w/more tension also.
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Principle may fall from fashion, but is always a principle!
 
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*useless info* said:
bull-nosed-choke-sling.png


Very Nice, thanx!
May you try this sometime please?
.
To theory would seek to only have simple turn on host mount
>>to leave as much power remaining for Round Turn grip around Standing Part/eye.
And dress so all lays nicely, relaxed, not twerked(as suspect you would).
i always imagine pre-stress as like twisted metal, to be easily leveraged against device more when loaded.
.
per extended theory of ABoK lesson#1669. ".... If the rope is weak and the hoist is heavy, a round tum on the standing part adds materially to the strength of the knot."
.
ABoK shows as Fig.8 w/Round Turn.
ABoK seems to favor Fig.8 style of Half-Hitches, Timber-Hitch etc. whereby take Half-Hitch around Standing Part, then over self before tucking to Nip. Giving extra friction reduction before Nip, and then Nips w/more tension also.
.
Principle may fall from fashion, but is always a principle!
Click to expand...
The problem I see with this is that you are taking the very benefits of the flat webbing and forcing it into the shape of a round object.

20190410_082853.webp
 
So, sorry, meant for that to appear round in the pic, as rising off the log/not flat.
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UI notes:
Will concede wide flat rope/webbing would deform too much in this Round Turn (i say 'bulled' when applied here or to Cow, Girth, Timber etc.) compression on Standing Part.
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But as we come away from a 1/16" thick to 4" wide or more ratio;
towards more rounded dimensions etc.
i'd think we'd still see this (d)effect in our 1" loopies ;
but so much less so in the Dyneema/Spectra slings that are closer to round ratio, especially doubled; and then different construction of polyester as more of a carrier of active strength component and to add color, grip etc.
Besides dimension, the Dyneema sling material resists the distortions the least, and the 4" etc. thin industrial/vehichle towing tie down etc. really resists the distortion as a material stiffness X geometry math i think, of which Dyneema slings are lowest; if not virtually neutral?
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In these i have gone with the more bull nose that i also look at as an electrical cord grommet of reinforcement. Then also have made extended 'boot' form of several 'grommets' in series w/o noting visible distortion of loaded 'pipeline'. Also imbues some dynamic absorption I think, as well as perhaps a second leg of support for less loaded deformities (?) in favoring geometries. In any case I think of the bull or boot forms pull more along properly than across Standing Part (w/o noted deformity of very flat) lends to stronger.
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Not favoring for permanent carabiner attachment of sling as i think these should be more 'free ranging' / rotation for even wear of sling, also any captive anything on krab can allow sling to look like on krab when 1 leg thru the gate, and sling can pop off. Also can load un-balanced. But if legs more locked on load side, krab can self equalize loading to legs, and allow rotation for even wear when not hitched.
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Have played with 3/8 Tenex, seems similar favorable 'shapeshifter' from flat to relatively round profile (?).
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