Mixing business and personal

evo

evo

Been here much more than a while
Location
My Island, WA
Years ago I made an acquaintance and I thought he would be a good fit for treework and I mentioned it. We then evolved into a semi friendship level, this past summer he hit me up for a temporary job.
Since then he had some life changes and split up with the gal he was moving to Montana with, so temp has migrated into part time, with trying to keep him busy as much as possible.
He is proving himself to be less than desirable, and pulling some shit that a temporary worker can get away with but a long term employee shouldn’t even consider a possibility. A quick example is Friday he informed me of what his availability was for this week. This wouldn’t bother me much if he was only working for a month or two, and we were doing mutual favors (him being a extra set of hands, and me helping ends meet until his move).
The line has been blurred, I’ve also come to realize he doesn’t have the quality of experience he presented himself having. “I have lots of chainsaw experience” “grew up with em, on the ranch in Colorado” “yeah I can maintain a sharpen a chain”..
all of which are far from my reality of observation. I caught him one handing a 261 to reach a limb on the bottom side. I barked at him from over the saw, said something along the lines of “i never want to see you do that again, and you have to keep two hands on the saw.” He hasn’t since, but felt the need to express how butt hurt he was about the talking too.
He hasn’t read the books I gave him 6 months ago, so he can self educate. Blair’s book, and the study manual.

Issue is there isn’t one serious thing worth firing him over. But just a general vibe of lack of passion. Now today I met a fellow who seems very passionate about wanting to get a toe hold in the industry. He has the federal class b chainsaw cert, has worked on felling crews with the forest service, has stage rigging experience at height, bucket and lift experience. Sounds like he could be an awesome employee and thrilled to learn arboriculture, lots of questions about certification, etc.
This isn’t something that falls into my lap very often, living on a island with a very limited labor pool, in a industry starving for a intelligent, passionate, capable work force.

How do y’all handle situations like this?
 
I don't have employees so I could be wrong, but if you can afford it I'd hire the second guy alongside the first. It may motivate the first guy to strive to do better, and if not at least you have a chance to see how the second guy will work out without losing the current help.

If you fire the first and the second doesn't work out then your down a man. Only you can decide if that possibility is better than the help you've currently been getting.
 
Jehinten said:
I don't have employees so I could be wrong, but if you can afford it I'd hire the second guy alongside the first. It may motivate the first guy to strive to do better, and if not at least you have a chance to see how the second guy will work out without losing the current help.

If you fire the first and the second doesn't work out then your down a man. Only you can decide if that possibility is better than the help you've currently been getting.
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I currently have two guys, and myself. The temp guy, really doesn’t need to be on half the jobs I put him on I’m just trying to keep him busy. I’m cool with that, but it’s a tougher pill to swallow when someone else can bring much more passion to the job site.
 
Bring them both on board. Set clear, high expectations. Have tangible benchmarks and goals for them to achieve. Most guys we hire that aren’t cut out for tree work throw in the towel because they come to the conclusion on their own that they’re not cut out for the job. We’ve never had to fire any of them. For example, tell your friend: “I want you to read this short article on chainsaw safety by next Friday. Write down 3 of your biggest take-always from the article and we’re going to discuss them Friday.” If he doesn’t meet the goal, “Well, I’m just going to have you rake and pull brush until you can finish reading that article and we can discuss it.” These types of goal setting sessions either bring out the best in your crew or they help your crew realize they’re not cut out for the job. I don’t have any place on my crew for an employee not willing to constantly grow in their knowledge and understand of what we do.
 
I like what’s been said already. If you can create a culture that pushes for production, and safety, Mr. Slowpoke will find his way out pretty quickly. If that’s not a quick enough method for you, perhaps explain to him that you consider him to be friend, and as a friend you need to explain to him that this is not the best career/workplace for him. Perhaps explain that your friendship means too much to allow work to get in the way, so you’ll give him a hand finding a position elsewhere and perhaps a severance to help him until he get started somewhere else. And then hire the new guy, and start building the culture you want to see.
 
Reach said:
I like what’s been said already. If you can create a culture that pushes for production, and safety, Mr. Slowpoke will find his way out pretty quickly. If that’s not a quick enough method for you, perhaps explain to him that you consider him to be friend, and as a friend you need to explain to him that this is not the best career/workplace for him. Perhaps explain that your friendship means too much to allow work to get in the way, so you’ll give him a hand finding a position elsewhere and perhaps a severance to help him until he get started somewhere else. And then hire the new guy, and start building the culture you want to see.
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HigherGroundArborist said:
Bring them both on board. Set clear, high expectations. Have tangible benchmarks and goals for them to achieve. Most guys we hire that aren’t cut out for tree work throw in the towel because they come to the conclusion on their own that they’re not cut out for the job. We’ve never had to fire any of them. For example, tell your friend: “I want you to read this short article on chainsaw safety by next Friday. Write down 3 of your biggest take-always from the article and we’re going to discuss them Friday.” If he doesn’t meet the goal, “Well, I’m just going to have you rake and pull brush until you can finish reading that article and we can discuss it.” These types of goal setting sessions either bring out the best in your crew or they help your crew realize they’re not cut out for the job. I don’t have any place on my crew for an employee not willing to constantly grow in their knowledge and understand of what we do.
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I feel like I'm being ignored. I understand he has quite a bit of life drama in his world, I've asked him if he's picked up the books 2-3 times in the past six months to which he admitted he hasn't done more than glance at them. I set a bite sized goal of just sticking with the pruning chapter and the safety chapter in the Study Manual first, then use the Blair book for terminology on tools. I also mentioned that I need him to take some incentive for self motivated learning, to date he hasn't asked how to do something, and at worse he has taken it upon himself to prune against my specifications. Some how plant separation between the rosemary and Pieris turned into reducing them into same height hedge plants. He means well and tries to keep himself busy, but frequently in the wrong direction. The issue is he doesn't ask 'what can I do' but tries to just do anything in what is commonly the wrong direction (like off loading all the tools on the truck after I said "we will drop this tree and back the truck up to it" so now we have to move all the tools from behind the truck). Dude is 50, and doesn't take direction well unless I spell every do and don't out in detail.
 
@evo you say you are being ignored. What exactly are you asking?

You explain your issues with the guy and ask generally how to handle it. Are you asking how to fire the guy and preserve a friendship? Don’t know if there is a way to do that for sure. Depends a lot on what and how you communicate the need for business separation, but also how the guy takes it. Sounds like from what you said he is not the kind of guy to take constructive criticism well, which bodes ill for a parting of ways while preserving the relationship. No matter what you say, firing is a rejection that hurts. The person handling it has to be mentally tough and emotionally mature to handle it gracefully. I think if you really feel like you should be letting him go (which it sounds like you think you should), let him down clearly and cleanly; generally less is more because mostly his emotions are likely to throttle his brain once he realizes he is being let go. You have to expect you may lose a friend. If you want, to preserve the friendship take it upon yourself to reach out and clear the air as much as you can after the fact. But he may not want to stay in touch.

If you wanted to try having a reset conversation, that is the alternative. Something along the lines of I hired you as a temp, here’s what I need to see from you if you want to make this a more permanent job. It would give him more a heads up to grow or that a parting of ways is coming.

No matter how you handle it, on board the prospect you are excited about. Overlap with the temp guy or not; things never line up perfectly timing, staffing, or business volume wise. But hiring every good guy you can get is really the heart of a service business. Don’t let your sorting out Mr Temp stand in the way of the other hiring decision.
 
There’s a few ways to talk to people.

From your post you have the friend conversational and employer/employee authority structure being blurred and even conflicting with each other.

You can also have the prompting type of conversation (talking about issues using euphemisms, implying speech, expectations not necessarily established even though one thinks they may be etc)

You can also have the honest conversation, with clear discussion of issues, or clear giving of instructions and expectations.

With the discussion of issues one must be careful, as sometimes discussion of performance regarding the expectations and instructions may not have been as clear as one thought they may have been, or even been mixed up with opposing or conflicting expectations, and may be best to come with open mind to these discussions than a predetermined attitude that may/may not be correct in its basis - easy to lose both friend and employee.

On a seperate istance - I have seen many bosses fire people without finding out the root cause and actually fired the wrong employee, or pre-emptively fired an employee due to making an example, when a simple discussion to find out the truth would have cleared the air, improved efficiency of the whole team, and kept a part trained employee, instead in an effort to look authoritative leaving a bad taste in every ones mouth.

Personally I would step it up using the new employee. Have an honest conversation but use the sh$t-sandwich model: whats good-whats bad(less good)-whats good; and be honest giving him the picture of what you want the business to become, and ask outright if he wants to be part of that picture and spell out what you see as required of him to do that. And listen to anything he has to say that may/may not be helpful.

Using competition or positive/negative reinforcement can work - but can also backfire if participants misread intentions.

As nit being present the relationship dynamic is vague to us, but I am sure you can isolate what are the important issues and segregate the business and friendship components.

I always liked that Brad Pitt statement in Moneyball: ‘If it was happening to you would you want one in the head? Or five in the chest...
 
Bring in the new guy and just have him start doing the things the other guy did. Start directing more conversation to the new guy and talk about tree things that the other guy may not know about. OR just tell the other guy straight up he ain't cutting it and either needs to pick up the pace or move on.
 
evo said:
I feel like I'm being ignored. I understand he has quite a bit of life drama in his world, I've asked him if he's picked up the books 2-3 times in the past six months to which he admitted he hasn't done more than glance at them. I set a bite sized goal of just sticking with the pruning chapter and the safety chapter in the Study Manual first, then use the Blair book for terminology on tools. I also mentioned that I need him to take some incentive for self motivated learning, to date he hasn't asked how to do something, and at worse he has taken it upon himself to prune against my specifications. Some how plant separation between the rosemary and Pieris turned into reducing them into same height hedge plants. He means well and tries to keep himself busy, but frequently in the wrong direction. The issue is he doesn't ask 'what can I do' but tries to just do anything in what is commonly the wrong direction (like off loading all the tools on the truck after I said "we will drop this tree and back the truck up to it" so now we have to move all the tools from behind the truck). Dude is 50, and doesn't take direction well unless I spell every do and don't out in detail.
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That’s a hard one, but I see your point and it does look like he is becoming a drain on the company. A question to ask yourself would be “If he was not a friend, what would I do?” and if the answer is “fire him”, that may be what you have to do. It’s business, not personal, and that makes for hard decisions sometimes. Unfortunately that’s why we owners get paid the big money. Or no money, when the employees aren’t working...

Personally, I would start with a “shape up or ship out” conversation, ask him if there is something bothering him that you can improve (maybe he needs new reading glasses?), explain that what’s happening now is not working, and ask him if he has any ideas on how to fix the problems you’re having. He may come up with an answer that solves the problem, whether it’s something you can do/change, or maybe he will decide to move on at that point. That tactic does not always work, but I’ve seen decent success with it over the years. If it’s his decision, he’s less likely to be upset with you about whatever happens, and it gives him a way out without hurting his pride.
 
I think if you are honest with him you would be doing both of you a favor. If you have the opportunity to add a good team member you should not hesitate. You stated how few and far between they are so don't miss an opportunity when you can. If you can't afford to keep both then you can tell him for the reasons you stated above its not working out. Or you can be straight with him and lay it down, he needs to make good on the things he said he would do. He can choose to accept it and make an effort or move on. It is not your fault he is having problems in life. A lot of problems can be self induced and require hardship to force introspection or seeking help (pulling your head out of your butt). As a wise man Joe Dirt once said "this ain't UNICEF". You aren't running a charity and his behavior reflects on your business.

If you still want to be friends with this person they will hopefully be able to distinguish business and personal. If they hold a grudge against you for a business decision because you didnt allow them to take advantage of a friendship situation, they don't sound like a good friend.

If his heart were in it he would be there and there wouldn't be any excuses.
 
oldoakman said:
If the guy is 50 and having life drama issues I have a news flash...it ain't going to get any easier. We all have life issues. Some just refuse to put on the big boy pants.
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Depends on the support networks you have too in pulling yourself out of depression and applying your energy to something new. Hope sometimes is a hard thing to engage but generally requires little steps to begin with.

Cultural changes are also a factor: say 'put on the big boy pants' to someone with PTSD from the battlefield now and you will be vilified, twenty years ago it was standard behavior....

But agree the challenge must be issued.... The mental drain on EVO will take its own toll until a resolution is drawn, the better the resolution the less the ongoing toll...
 
Thank you all for the advise. My personal issue is my own hangup with loyalty, unless you blatantly screw me outright I'm loyal to a fault.
Dude has stepped on my toes, done some dumb shit but hasn't burned me.. It's a bit of a wash as I've only increased my prices (day goals) by his cost, I feel he is worth his cost but certainly doesn't bring anything to the table much more than that. I'm not sure if I'd fire him outright, but now I have this other guy who is expressing interest. He seems day and night, and has applicable experience (class b Sawyer cert with the USFS) ample rigging and aerial lift experience when doing event work. It wasn't a interview, he just sought me out to get a feel for arboriculture in the area and island.
I'm going to have him come out on a job just to observe what it is on his time (he wants that). If he then is still interested and can commit a year I'll offer him the 'temp' guys job.
On default I'll just move to the temp guy back to a 'as needed' basis, stop giving him work unless needed (my need) or until he starts showing interest.
I just needed to clear my head, there is my personal loyalty hangups, and then my other default is straight dog eat dog business. No judgement on either, my struggle is finding my balance.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Your solution has already been shared. You need to
Make a decision

before it smells like the guy is going to get fired get your books back. They might be very valuable
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Yeah the books... never mind the fuel cans when his fuel pump bit the dust and he left them behind the house he got kicked out of
 
evo said:
Yeah the books... never mind the fuel cans when his fuel pump bit the dust and he left them behind the house he got kicked out of
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Your loyalty may yet pay you back, it might not all be break-even, or costing you... life has a way of rewarding keeping your values... (even though some tout ‘no good deed goes unpunished’....)
 
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