Maintaining sharp chains on the work-site

What do you do to get sharp chains on the worksite?

  • always just switch out the dull chain on site

    Votes: 20 34.5%
  • always sharpen the dull chain on site

    Votes: 13 22.4%
  • only switch out dull chain if it has hit metal or rocks, otherwise sharpen

    Votes: 23 39.7%
  • I touch it up most every fill-up

    Votes: 7 12.1%
  • I hand sharpen everything

    Votes: 30 51.7%
  • I use a grinder exclusively

    Votes: 4 6.9%
  • other (please note in your response)

    Votes: 4 6.9%

  • Total voters
    58
We often just pick up another saw. We also carry multiple spare chains. I normally save them up in a big box then go through the box sharpening a lot of chains at once. We carry the following saws with us:

338 xpt
536lixp
3-550xp
562xp
395xp

Used to carry a 372 as well until I slung a crank bearing. Going to either build it or get a 572xp to carry. This is for a 3 man crew.
Nice line up, 572xp looks pretty tempting. Just picked up another 550xp to add to the lineup, $440 on sale with 18" bar (they wouldn't sell with a 20" for some reason).
I carry extra chains, generally pick up another saw, also carry an extra bar and chain for my echo 590.
 
I try to sharpen on-site especially with regular customers that get to know my billing method. They have a stop wTch and I can charge for the sharpening with more clarity in the billing (they don’t see the time if I sharpen at workshop). I Mention the chain damage and the extra if I have to move to next job in hurry (they are pre-warned too).

But saves arguments and can get to talk to them whilst I sharpen - which can get more work as they become more familiar with you and there’s more time to remember other jobs that need doing...
Sounds like you are billing your time not a flat contract. I wont try and decipher your billing method from a short statement. I will say this, that sounds like milking it though. From the other direction what if you finish a difficult task quickly because you are good, you lose out on what its worth. With that idea why not change chipper blades, change the oil or any other task that contributes to production. We should arrive on a jobsite with tools ready to work IMO. I understand things happen and we do what we have to do, but going to a job with intentions of doing maintenance seems unprepared, them charging the customer for that time and having to explain all that seems convoluted.
 
Sounds like you are billing your time not a flat contract. I wont try and decipher your billing method from a short statement. I will say this, that sounds like milking it though. From the other direction what if you finish a difficult task quickly because you are good, you lose out on what its worth. With that idea why not change chipper blades, change the oil or any other task that contributes to production. We should arrive on a jobsite with tools ready to work IMO. I understand things happen and we do what we have to do, but going to a job with intentions of doing maintenance seems unprepared, them charging the customer for that time and having to explain all that seems convoluted.

I think you miss the point, I am exploiting the maintenance time at end of job to talk to client. I actually get substantially more work from clients and their neighbours. Plus when work is remembered I dont have to return to quote so it saves me a quoting trip.

There are some jobs that are quoted by the hour/half day/day rate so yes then it is important - those are more fire mitigation jobs doing underbrush.

I am servicing chains from their job not someone else’s job.

The clients that check time I do quite a bit of work for, and they check to see rates aren’t going up, and this is particularly when hitting rocks/steel with the chain that the time seen is important. There is extended provisions in the quote for chain damage - we have lots of granite, bauxite, concrete, steel pickets and stakes grown over and I don’t wear that damage anymore - it is quoted as an extra cost (should itv arise). They winge but when you break or seriously damage a chain on a picket growing inside the tree trunk, and sharpen or show them damage they are accepting of it...

The market is a little tight around here so can’t just increase rates to generally cover damage like that on an overall basis.

This doesn’t happen on every job, I am just using time best way I can. The added bonus being beers are often brought out...
 
Last edited:
I think you miss the point, I am exploiting the maintenance time at end of job to talk to client. I actually get substantially more work from clients and their neighbours. Plus when work is remembered I dont have to return to quote so it saves me a quoting trip.

There are some jobs that are quoted by the hour/half day/day rate so yes then it is important - those are more fire mitigation jobs doing underbrush.

I am servicing chains from their job not someone else’s job.

The clients that check time I do quite a bit of work for, and they check to see rates aren’t going up, and this is particularly when hitting rocks/steel with the chain that the time seen is important. There is extended provisions in the quote for chain damage - we have lots of granite, bauxite, concrete, steel pickets and stakes grown over and I don’t wear that damage anymore - it is quoted as an extra cost (should itv arise). They winge but when you break or seriously damage a chain on a picket growing inside the tree trunk, and sharpen or show them damage they are accepting of it...

The market is a little tight around here so can’t just increase rates to generally cover damage like that on an overall basis.

This doesn’t happen on every job, I am just using time best way I can. The added bonus being beers are often brought out...
Fair enough, obviously everyone has a different take on billing and contracts. i prefer simplicity. As long as your customers are happy and we feel we are treating people right thats what matters. i agree with the unexpected surprises in stumps. I to will notify a customer and explain the added cost of chains, most people are very reasonable. yes i may be missing your point. It can be tough trying to understand a point here when we are just typing. Repeat customers i agree are easier to deal with because they know what to expect. Thanks for your response its good to here from others.
 
I do the bulk of the cutting, and all the sharpening.

As such, I do minor amounts of the latter. Luckily, I rarely hit metal or rocks, but did yesterday.

I'm mindful of how I move logs, and will check for gravel in the bark. If I'm dragging, I'll try to keep the log on the bottom edge, not the side.

Partially cutting before dragging through gravel it mud can avoid making 'dirty cutting'.


Couple strokes every couple fill-ups.
Rakers on occasion.
Keep the files handy. If easy to get, more likely to be used for touch ups.

I'm going to find an easier to access storage space for each file size.



Make sure not to draw grit into the kerf, by using the pulling or pushing chain appropriately, spray bark and grit away from the kerf.

Keep your tip inside the stump.
 
Thanks Mower, I was able to change my vote to swap chains on the job and also hand sharpen all chains.

Anyone have a real bench vise that goes on the job? Past employers of mine would usually put a cheap harbor freight vise on a chipper or trailer fender or mounted on top of a toolbox lid. I can get a decent sharpening without a vise, but it’s always better with one.
 
Thanks Mower, I was able to change my vote to swap chains on the job and also hand sharpen all chains.

Anyone have a real bench vise that goes on the job? Past employers of mine would usually put a cheap harbor freight vise on a chipper or trailer fender or mounted on top of a toolbox lid. I can get a decent sharpening without a vise, but it’s always better with one.
I have a vice that slides into the bumper on the bucket... Don't use it often, but if I need to do a thorough sharpening or multiple saws it comes out
 
I take enough saws with me that I rarely need to change out the chains, but always take spare chains with me... usually 2x for each saw. I prefer to sharpen used chains at home or in the shop.

I did, however, pick up a bunch of stuff to sharpen on the jobsite, if necessary. I've just found that I'd rather change out the chains. This batch of stuff I got for the trailer I use to haul my tree shit around in... and haven't used any of it, yet. I've been thinking about building a bench in the garage of the Stromsberg house just for working on the chainsaws, so maybe I can put it to use that way. I have a spare chain grinder, too... but I really don't like the job those things do. They are fast, and fine for sharpening the older, more worn out chains.

chainsharp.webp
 
Thanks Mower, I was able to change my vote to swap chains on the job and also hand sharpen all chains.

Anyone have a real bench vise that goes on the job? Past employers of mine would usually put a cheap harbor freight vise on a chipper or trailer fender or mounted on top of a toolbox lid. I can get a decent sharpening without a vise, but it’s always better with one.
Check out @flushcut 's vise in this thread...it is on my todo list:
 
I made that out of drops from what was left over from my dump trailer sides build and a stump vise welded to the middle. I added a tubes worth of polyester caulk on the bottom for traction in a nice ropy S pattern. 11 years in service I think. I store it in my 3/4 tons bed box vertically. At a guess 16" square or H lol.
 
Thanks again to all who have responded.

Here's a little bit of the "why" so many of you have asked about.

As a "Volunteer Active in Disaster Relief (V.O.A.D.)" member, we mobilize volunteers to cut downed trees up and carry them to the curb for pickup. Our target demographic for those we serve is homeowners with little to no insurance, widows, first responders, etc.

At the moment we send two "sharp" chains out with a "sharp" saw. When the saw becomes dull, the operator simply trades out the dull loop for a sharp one. In my 29+ years of industry experience, only one tree company I worked with did anything like this. Most showed up to the job with sharp saws ready to work and touched them up a couple of times through the day when necessary. On most crane jobs where the brush is literally dangling behind the chipper, it was entirely possible to go all day with no need to sharpen. However, the individuals cutting brush on a crane job are usually trained (or at least experienced enough) to keep the saw out of situations that will dull it.

Our Volunteers are mostly homeowners with an occasional firewood cutter in the mix. As you can imagine, keeping a sharp saw on a work site is next to impossible. The spare loops usually don't get traded out until the saw just won't cut any more. It is not uncommon to have to replace clutches on two or more saws during a single response (typically 2-5 weeks). The saws are all Stihl and mostly professional models like the 241, 261C, 361, 362 C, etc.

Let me apologize now for cutting many of you off, but I don't need a solution to this problem. I'm not some eager rookie trying to figure out how to keep from dulling saws. There are any number of approaches that would be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, my hands are tied in implementing any industry standards, much less new protocols on how we address these issues.

As our internal discussions come and go, I find myself in the middle of a group of folks who believe the approach above is legitimate mainly because "that's the way we've always done it... ." No matter how many mentions of ISA, TCIA, Arbormaster, ACRT, NATS, FAT, or any other reputable training entity, the result is the same. At one point I thought, maybe that is how other people perform cleanup operations and I'm just out of the loop as most of the companies I've worked for/with have been production based tree services. The survey above was my attempt to find out whether my background is the exception or the norm. Based on the results I'm seeing so far, it appears the group is pretty well split evenly into those who switch out loops regularly as opposed to maintaining the chain on the saw. This tells me my perspective is the exception as opposed to the norm. If nothing else, it is going to help me be a little more patient in discussions around this issue, so thanks!

For the record, I always had duplicate saws on the truck and showed up with very sharp chainsaws ready to go to work. I rarely changed a chain out on the site the exception being when we hit metal or some other embedded object. As a matter of fact, I even had an old 044 with an almost wore out chain that was used exclusively for the stump cuts. If I hit barb wire, rebar, a two inch yoke, or any other foreign object I didn't really care as the chain was pretty much done anyway. For the most part I can touch up a 20" or smaller chain in less time than most would take to change over to another loop. It took a while to get to become proficient with a file, but for me it has been worth the investment.
 
Are your volunteers trained?

One of my helpers works for another disaster relief organization doing what sounds like similar work. She is a trainer and onsite supervisor...i can guarantee nobody is running saws past dull on her job sites!
 
Are your volunteers trained?

That’s a great question! Actually, it is THE question. You know how I keep referring to “sharp” vs. sharp chains? Another discussion about “trained” vs. trained would follow suit. However, that is not a discussion I can participate in for now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATH
The organization she works with has a set of classes. What you are allowed to do on the job depends on which classes you've been through. Not unlike what USFS does with Red cards.

Like anything else, training is one thing...practice is a other. So I certainly know what you mean by "trained" vs. trained! Obviously that training can't force someone to not burn up bars with dull chains, but I am naive enough to think it might help!
 
When the alternative is wearing out saws, it seems to me that a roll of chain is way cheaper than repairs and lost production. Way easier to grind shot chains to be used again and again, on or off site, than fixing saws and junking parts.


There is the time of changing a chain, and the time involved in the whole process.

It generally takes me 10 seconds to get a round file, and more time to unpack and repack spare chains onsite, unpack and repack ground chains, etc.

Mounting a grinder on a 2x4 allow it to clamp into a vice on the truck in the field. Having a grinder onsite can be a help. Grinders take way less training than chainsaws, and can be done by someone, anyone with good eyesight, a bit of finesse and patience.



I used to train Americorps volunteers.
I asked them who would finish a cut first, me, 185# guy with an MS 440 (ftr, I trained all the women and men the same, and to use a 440), or my counterpart, a 130# woman with an MS 360.

Most everyone picked me.
She smoked me.
Unbeknownst to them, I had a shot chain and poorly adjusted carb.
Point made.

Fwiw.
 
I have another full time job and tree work is almost a full time job as well. so I don't have time to sharpen. I buy a good stack of different sized chains for the up coming season. I have a huge pile of single used chains that some day when there is a depression, I'll then use them :)
 

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom