Mangoes
Participating member
- Location
- Greater Toronto Area
What are the ins and outs of using vegie oil? Can you use both used and new oil? How cold can you try to use it before it won't work?
Ive got gas
- Thread starter RGus
- Start date
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
[ QUOTE ]
Wolter, How do you think Hydrogen is produced???? Thats also big energy consuming to!
[/ QUOTE ]
No it's not Ronald, just don't think the world will stay in this balance Rich-Poor.
Around the equator there is a lot of rays diving in the sand. It would be great if Africa started producing hydrogen out of their natural source. That would give them a great source of income.
Or hou about the overdose of German windmill powerplants? Let it flow away?
The great thing of hydrogen is that it can be produced and stored for the moment that the extra electrical power is needed.
Wolter
Wolter, How do you think Hydrogen is produced???? Thats also big energy consuming to!
[/ QUOTE ]
No it's not Ronald, just don't think the world will stay in this balance Rich-Poor.
Around the equator there is a lot of rays diving in the sand. It would be great if Africa started producing hydrogen out of their natural source. That would give them a great source of income.
Or hou about the overdose of German windmill powerplants? Let it flow away?
The great thing of hydrogen is that it can be produced and stored for the moment that the extra electrical power is needed.
Wolter
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Here's a PDF file about veggie oil.
Wolter
Wolter
- Location
- Netherlands
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
Wolter, How do you think Hydrogen is produced???? Thats also big energy consuming to!
[/ QUOTE ]
No it's not Ronald, just don't think the world will stay in this balance Rich-Poor.
Around the equator there is a lot of rays diving in the sand. It would be great if Africa started producing hydrogen out of their natural source. That would give them a great source of income.
Or hou about the overdose of German windmill powerplants? Let it flow away?
The great thing of hydrogen is that it can be produced and stored for the moment that the extra electrical power is needed.
Wolter
[/ QUOTE ]
Some facts on producing Hydrogen.
Hydrigen is a energy carrier and not a energy source. So to store energy in hydrogen you need to put energy into producing it.
Some figures between energy input and energy stored in hydrogen.
Methane, when pruducing methane out earthgas/fossil oil you loose 32-44% of the energy stored in earthgas or oil. Also when making the hydrogen out of methane with the use of steam, another loss of 35% engery happens. Also emmissions from this way are much worse. Its producing nitrigen-oxide wich is 58 times as worse as carbon-oxide (greenhouse effect)
Water, producing hydrogen from water with electrolyte will need 4 units of energy input to get 1 unit of energy stored in hydrogen.
for example, using windenergy for producing hydrogen will make the totall coastline of great brittain filled with a 10km wide zone of windmils to run the 30.000.000 cars there.
Using solarenergie, you need 9 units of solar energy to produce 1 unit hydrogen energy.
Also hydrogen has the LOWEST energy value. Its under normal conditions (temperature and pressure) rated 3000-1 with gasoline. You need to pressurize/liquify the hydrogen to get the needed stored energy. (an other loss of energy between 15% at 10.000psi and 30-40% for liquifidation)
an exemple,
if you can get 90km/kg hydrogen drining a car
and having a 3 kg storage tank in a car you can drive 270km. only the storage tank weights 400kg!!!
having a regular car with 60liter gasoline tank that weights 73Kg!!! with that you have an radius to drive from about 800km!!!
>source, search Google for OIL PEAK< or klick here ---> Oil-Peak
I am sure we are all DOOMED as human species /forum/images/graemlins/boohoo.gif
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
Wolter, How do you think Hydrogen is produced???? Thats also big energy consuming to!
[/ QUOTE ]
No it's not Ronald, just don't think the world will stay in this balance Rich-Poor.
Around the equator there is a lot of rays diving in the sand. It would be great if Africa started producing hydrogen out of their natural source. That would give them a great source of income.
Or hou about the overdose of German windmill powerplants? Let it flow away?
The great thing of hydrogen is that it can be produced and stored for the moment that the extra electrical power is needed.
Wolter
[/ QUOTE ]
Some facts on producing Hydrogen.
Hydrigen is a energy carrier and not a energy source. So to store energy in hydrogen you need to put energy into producing it.
Some figures between energy input and energy stored in hydrogen.
Methane, when pruducing methane out earthgas/fossil oil you loose 32-44% of the energy stored in earthgas or oil. Also when making the hydrogen out of methane with the use of steam, another loss of 35% engery happens. Also emmissions from this way are much worse. Its producing nitrigen-oxide wich is 58 times as worse as carbon-oxide (greenhouse effect)
Water, producing hydrogen from water with electrolyte will need 4 units of energy input to get 1 unit of energy stored in hydrogen.
for example, using windenergy for producing hydrogen will make the totall coastline of great brittain filled with a 10km wide zone of windmils to run the 30.000.000 cars there.
Using solarenergie, you need 9 units of solar energy to produce 1 unit hydrogen energy.
Also hydrogen has the LOWEST energy value. Its under normal conditions (temperature and pressure) rated 3000-1 with gasoline. You need to pressurize/liquify the hydrogen to get the needed stored energy. (an other loss of energy between 15% at 10.000psi and 30-40% for liquifidation)
an exemple,
if you can get 90km/kg hydrogen drining a car
and having a 3 kg storage tank in a car you can drive 270km. only the storage tank weights 400kg!!!
having a regular car with 60liter gasoline tank that weights 73Kg!!! with that you have an radius to drive from about 800km!!!
>source, search Google for OIL PEAK< or klick here ---> Oil-Peak
I am sure we are all DOOMED as human species /forum/images/graemlins/boohoo.gif
- Location
- Netherlands
Hi Wolter, what is youre respons? i hear you typing all the way over here..... /forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif
Rgrds Ronald
[edit] i was sure you were writing an answer... /forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif
Im /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif i quess....
lol, of to bed now....
Rgrds Ronald
[edit] i was sure you were writing an answer... /forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif
Im /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif i quess....
lol, of to bed now....
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
[ QUOTE ]
Water, producing hydrogen from water with electrolyte will need 4 units of energy input to get 1 unit of energy stored in hydrogen.
Using solarenergie, you need 9 units of solar energy to produce 1 unit hydrogen energy.
Also hydrogen has the LOWEST energy value. Its under normal conditions (temperature and pressure) rated 3000-1 with gasoline. You need to pressurize/liquify the hydrogen to get the needed stored energy. (an other loss of energy between 15% at 10.000psi and 30-40% for liquifidation)
an exemple,
if you can get 90km/kg hydrogen drining a car
and having a 3 kg storage tank in a car you can drive 270km. only the storage tank weights 400kg!!!
having a regular car with 60liter gasoline tank that weights 73Kg!!! with that you have an radius to drive from about 800km!!!
I am sure we are all DOOMED as human species /forum/images/graemlins/boohoo.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
So?
Isn't that nine to one ratio better than letting all that energy leak away and do nothing with it.
A friend of mine has a couple of broken solar panels (just fragments) in his window-seat hooked up to some gadgets. If only you could see that moving out of nothing... But that nothing is a powerfull something.
[ QUOTE ]
Hydrigen is a energy carrier and not a energy source. So to store energy in hydrogen you need to put energy into producing it.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes and isn't it great to have a coast line full of windmills filling that energy container knowing that the wind is there for free to catch without polution.
And don't tell me producing those windmills costs loads of energy, because that's probably nothing compared with the cost of those "little oilrig's that Shell has to keep floating with all the attatched "small" oil disasters.
We only hear the tip of the iceberg when it comes to disasters that have to do with oil (when they reach our pearly beaches).
And you are right about one more thing Ronald, Doomed for messing up this place for our children. And that's why i get so very !!!!!! mad about people that don't want a windmill in their backyard. CUT THEM FROM THE POWERGRID. Because there are better and better options than fossil fuels that do get us, and not only us DOOMED.
In Houten (my place) they are planning some 150 meter (450 feet) tall windmills. Isn't life great /forum/images/graemlins/pbj.gif
Wolter
Water, producing hydrogen from water with electrolyte will need 4 units of energy input to get 1 unit of energy stored in hydrogen.
Using solarenergie, you need 9 units of solar energy to produce 1 unit hydrogen energy.
Also hydrogen has the LOWEST energy value. Its under normal conditions (temperature and pressure) rated 3000-1 with gasoline. You need to pressurize/liquify the hydrogen to get the needed stored energy. (an other loss of energy between 15% at 10.000psi and 30-40% for liquifidation)
an exemple,
if you can get 90km/kg hydrogen drining a car
and having a 3 kg storage tank in a car you can drive 270km. only the storage tank weights 400kg!!!
having a regular car with 60liter gasoline tank that weights 73Kg!!! with that you have an radius to drive from about 800km!!!
I am sure we are all DOOMED as human species /forum/images/graemlins/boohoo.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
So?
Isn't that nine to one ratio better than letting all that energy leak away and do nothing with it.
A friend of mine has a couple of broken solar panels (just fragments) in his window-seat hooked up to some gadgets. If only you could see that moving out of nothing... But that nothing is a powerfull something.
[ QUOTE ]
Hydrigen is a energy carrier and not a energy source. So to store energy in hydrogen you need to put energy into producing it.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes and isn't it great to have a coast line full of windmills filling that energy container knowing that the wind is there for free to catch without polution.
And don't tell me producing those windmills costs loads of energy, because that's probably nothing compared with the cost of those "little oilrig's that Shell has to keep floating with all the attatched "small" oil disasters.
We only hear the tip of the iceberg when it comes to disasters that have to do with oil (when they reach our pearly beaches).
And you are right about one more thing Ronald, Doomed for messing up this place for our children. And that's why i get so very !!!!!! mad about people that don't want a windmill in their backyard. CUT THEM FROM THE POWERGRID. Because there are better and better options than fossil fuels that do get us, and not only us DOOMED.
In Houten (my place) they are planning some 150 meter (450 feet) tall windmills. Isn't life great /forum/images/graemlins/pbj.gif
Wolter
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Wolter, what is youre respons? i hear you typing all the way over here..... /forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif
Rgrds Ronald
[edit] i was sure you were writing an answer... /forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif
Im /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif i quess....
lol, of to bed now....
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL You see this little yellow chappy/forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif, that's my typingspeed, with a dictionary on my lap.
Hi Wolter, what is youre respons? i hear you typing all the way over here..... /forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif
Rgrds Ronald
[edit] i was sure you were writing an answer... /forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif
Im /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif i quess....
lol, of to bed now....
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL You see this little yellow chappy/forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif, that's my typingspeed, with a dictionary on my lap.
- Location
- Netherlands
Hia Wolter, had to stay up and wait for youre respons.....
You are totally right, maybe now its not that "friendly" to produce hydrogenand alternative energy but the first fuel engines or coal combusters were even worse...
So its good to work towards alternatives and lett progres and innovations go on.
Also here at 'Terneuzen' they are planning to build windmills in a industry zone. Only some people nearby are doing all they can to prevent that. They were offered 700.000 EURO to compensate but they declined it. (money not for the people but to invest in the area, like planting scrubs/tree zone to camouflage the mills.) Most of the compliants are already living behind a 'green' zone thats planted 8 years ago to camouflage the industry /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(for the record, a other sub division of the firm i work for builds those things! Windmill constructor )
this is todays article about this item here. (dutch written /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif)
‘Advocaat comité enkel uit op gewin’
Door René van Stee
Donderdag 2 juni 2005 - TERNEUZEN – Advocaat Wilfred Suijkerbuijk uit Terneuzen draait de bewoners van de Koegorspolder willens en wetens een rad voor de ogen. Dat zegt directeur Hans Hutting van Winwind.
Winwind wil 22 windturbines in de polder bouwen. Die zijn goed voor 44 megawatt stroom, ofwel de jaarlijkse stroomvoorziening van 35.000 huishoudens. Het gaat om een investering van zeventig miljoen euro. Suijkerbuijk is advocaat van de Stichting Behoud Leefbaarheid Koegorspolder, fel tegenstander van de komst van de turbines.
Volgens Hutting heeft het actiecomité geen schijn van kans om de bouw van het windmolenpark nog tegen te houden. Hij vindt dat Suijkerbuijk procedeert om het procederen en alleen uit is op geldelijk gewin.
„Er is geen enkel argument meer om verder te gaan. Zowel de advocaat als de stichting is blind voor de realiteit, want tot dusver blijkt dat soortgelijke zaken nooit hebben geleid tot het afblazen van windmolenprojecten. Verder is alles gelopen zoals het had gemoeten“, aldus Hutting.
Suijkerbuijk is net zo zeker van zijn zaak als zijn opponent. De zaak rammelt volgens hem aan alle kanten. Vandaar dat hij namens de stichting verder gaat met procederen. Er loopt nog een bodemprocedure bij de Raad van State tegen de verlening van de milieuvergunning. Daarnaast gaat er vandaag ook een verzoek de deur uit om de aanlegvergunning (onder meer voor nutsvoorzieningen) te schorsen.
Suijkerbuijk: „Winwind kan daardoor volgende week zeker niet beginnen met de voorbereidende werkzaamheden. Verder spelen niet alleen de kwesties rond de milieuvergunning en de aanlegvergunning, maar ook om de procedure rond de bouwvergunning. Die is verleend op basis van een versnelde bestemmingsplanwijziging. Ook daar zetten wij onze vraagtekens bij. Het duurt nog minstens anderhalf jaar voordat hierover helderheid is.“
Als de stichting verder gaat met procederen, stelt Winwind haar aansprakelijk voor schade door vertragingen. De windmolenbouwer bood de actievoerders eerder al 700.000 euro om af te zien van verdere gerechtelijke stappen. Volgens Hutting is het geenszins een poging tot omkoping, maar een tegemoetkoming aan de hele gemeenschap. Het aanbod komt overeen met de helft van de winst die Winwind jaarlijks verwacht te maken.
Hutting: „Zie het als een pragmatische oplossing. Het staat vast dat er enige overlast zal ontstaan. Daarom wilden wij betalen voor compenserende maatregelen zoals een geluidsscherm of -wal of de aanplant van een groene buffer.“
De Stichting Behoud Leefbaarheid Koegorspolder ging niet in op het voorstel omdat zij er heilig van overtuigd is dat het windmolenplan alsnog naar de prullenbak wordt verwezen.
Groeten Wolter van Ronald die nu wel gaat slapen!
You are totally right, maybe now its not that "friendly" to produce hydrogenand alternative energy but the first fuel engines or coal combusters were even worse...
So its good to work towards alternatives and lett progres and innovations go on.
Also here at 'Terneuzen' they are planning to build windmills in a industry zone. Only some people nearby are doing all they can to prevent that. They were offered 700.000 EURO to compensate but they declined it. (money not for the people but to invest in the area, like planting scrubs/tree zone to camouflage the mills.) Most of the compliants are already living behind a 'green' zone thats planted 8 years ago to camouflage the industry /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(for the record, a other sub division of the firm i work for builds those things! Windmill constructor )
this is todays article about this item here. (dutch written /forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif)
‘Advocaat comité enkel uit op gewin’
Door René van Stee
Donderdag 2 juni 2005 - TERNEUZEN – Advocaat Wilfred Suijkerbuijk uit Terneuzen draait de bewoners van de Koegorspolder willens en wetens een rad voor de ogen. Dat zegt directeur Hans Hutting van Winwind.
Winwind wil 22 windturbines in de polder bouwen. Die zijn goed voor 44 megawatt stroom, ofwel de jaarlijkse stroomvoorziening van 35.000 huishoudens. Het gaat om een investering van zeventig miljoen euro. Suijkerbuijk is advocaat van de Stichting Behoud Leefbaarheid Koegorspolder, fel tegenstander van de komst van de turbines.
Volgens Hutting heeft het actiecomité geen schijn van kans om de bouw van het windmolenpark nog tegen te houden. Hij vindt dat Suijkerbuijk procedeert om het procederen en alleen uit is op geldelijk gewin.
„Er is geen enkel argument meer om verder te gaan. Zowel de advocaat als de stichting is blind voor de realiteit, want tot dusver blijkt dat soortgelijke zaken nooit hebben geleid tot het afblazen van windmolenprojecten. Verder is alles gelopen zoals het had gemoeten“, aldus Hutting.
Suijkerbuijk is net zo zeker van zijn zaak als zijn opponent. De zaak rammelt volgens hem aan alle kanten. Vandaar dat hij namens de stichting verder gaat met procederen. Er loopt nog een bodemprocedure bij de Raad van State tegen de verlening van de milieuvergunning. Daarnaast gaat er vandaag ook een verzoek de deur uit om de aanlegvergunning (onder meer voor nutsvoorzieningen) te schorsen.
Suijkerbuijk: „Winwind kan daardoor volgende week zeker niet beginnen met de voorbereidende werkzaamheden. Verder spelen niet alleen de kwesties rond de milieuvergunning en de aanlegvergunning, maar ook om de procedure rond de bouwvergunning. Die is verleend op basis van een versnelde bestemmingsplanwijziging. Ook daar zetten wij onze vraagtekens bij. Het duurt nog minstens anderhalf jaar voordat hierover helderheid is.“
Als de stichting verder gaat met procederen, stelt Winwind haar aansprakelijk voor schade door vertragingen. De windmolenbouwer bood de actievoerders eerder al 700.000 euro om af te zien van verdere gerechtelijke stappen. Volgens Hutting is het geenszins een poging tot omkoping, maar een tegemoetkoming aan de hele gemeenschap. Het aanbod komt overeen met de helft van de winst die Winwind jaarlijks verwacht te maken.
Hutting: „Zie het als een pragmatische oplossing. Het staat vast dat er enige overlast zal ontstaan. Daarom wilden wij betalen voor compenserende maatregelen zoals een geluidsscherm of -wal of de aanplant van een groene buffer.“
De Stichting Behoud Leefbaarheid Koegorspolder ging niet in op het voorstel omdat zij er heilig van overtuigd is dat het windmolenplan alsnog naar de prullenbak wordt verwezen.
Groeten Wolter van Ronald die nu wel gaat slapen!
- Location
- Netherlands
[citaatLOL You see this little yellow chappy/forum/images/graemlins/lam.gif, that's my typingspeed, with a dictionary on my lap.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are sitting behind a PC with internet? search for ONLINE translation at google or so and pop it up in a other screen! Times changing, less need for paper is less cutting down trees for it....
>error occured at shut down :// reboot to answer again-go to bed instead
[/ QUOTE ]
You are sitting behind a PC with internet? search for ONLINE translation at google or so and pop it up in a other screen! Times changing, less need for paper is less cutting down trees for it....
>error occured at shut down :// reboot to answer again-go to bed instead
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
No Ronald I am not behind a computer with internet, we do things on Treebuzz by magic/forum/images/graemlins/icon314.gif. What's the fun in Google-ing the spellcheck? Google can be there for the quickfix but it's my own free time and I am not on Treebuzz to show I am a winner (wich I an not) from a English typwriterclass. /forum/images/graemlins/icon314.gif
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