ISA/TCIA affiliations & certifications for a "new solo climber"? Want my TRAQ cert, uncertain if I should *join* ISA...or go for it just yet...

[eyehearttrees]

'ConeCollector'--- guessing you're into more than just climbin&cuttin' ;D

All of your questions about credentaling can be answered by the nice folks at the ISA. Just call them up and have a conversation.

They were on Thurs., was able to get a good, live person who was eager to help me and explained everything, I was WAY off in my understanding of "the path":

There are some basic requirements to be eligible to take the TRAQ course, the most common one is Certified Arborist. I would recommend that be your first entry into the credential system.

This was my misunderstanding, I understood there was "isa certified arborist" credential that required you take all the other credentials first and have 8yrs with ISA, thought that someone like me would effectively start by picking one of the 6 specialties, and complete all 6 over 8yrs, then be eligible to be an ISA-cert'd-arborist..... I didn't realize there were 2 distinct ISA-ARBORIST certs, the initial one and Master....got some egg on my face because I'd have done this nearly a year ago if I'd understood it properly!!

So yeah anyway my plan now is to get the cert'd arborist ASAP (I signed up as a Member and ordered my text, and may/may not already be studying a pirated copy of an older edition of the text ), and since my membership lets me take exams at-discount I still intend to go for my TRAQ right-after my regular Arborist cert because in my town and all unincorporated areas near me, permits are not required to remove trees but the opinion of an arborist is and there's no statutes explaining just what 'arborist' means in this context, I know w/ the TRAQ I'll be confident & qualified (for basic-level, obviously 'qualified' is on a scale here) The TRAQ is something I would want to take anyways, in fact it was the only one of the 6 I really wanted, because I trust my gear and myself it's the trees themselves that often present the biggest uncertainties for me, so the TRAQ is win-win and, if already enrolled in ISA, just makes sense to go for it IMO!

Additionally if you are only interested in the ISA for marketing, perhaps it’s not for you. Marketing is only a small part of the ISA, the real value gained by being an ISA member is the professional network and access to current research and other publications.

I'd disagree, because in my area there's no other way to distinguish oneself, I mean sure facebook/google ratings and all that (which, of course, I'm taking advantage of - the platforms at least, for some reason neither service is allowing feedback/ratings/reviews for me, has been over 6mo and both still let my clients think they submitted feedback, but it never shows up ...
But the reality is my username isn't hyperbolic it's literal, all I do is trees, in the short while that I may/may not have had online access to an older copy of the Study Guide for this, I'm halfway through chapter 1 and stoked that I've expanded my understanding of the layers of tissue produced from the cambium-- I'd been thinking "This book is the resource that could've answered all the Q's that the bonsai&gardening forums couldn't" lol (I've been hacking trees in my nursery for half dozen years now, would've been trying to 'compete' / exhibit two of my best specimen this year (I have over 100) but going from contract work to "solo company" has taken basically every minute I have!!

If you want to have a longer conversation about the pros/cons of ISA certifications and qualifications feel free to pm me with a phone number.
Good luck!

I appreciate this very very much and may take you up on that Taking today off to "clean house", metaphorically (AND literally) speaking, and intend to review everything to ensure I'm understanding everything 100%, think I'm about there now! Biggest "uncertainty" for me is the application to take the test, you have to have 3yrs' experience.....I have more-than that (and they even allow "nursery employee" and "landscape company" experience, which puts me more near 7yrs than the ~3.5yrs I can show of actual real tree work) Problem is that I was doing everything under-table.....but in speaking with the representative on the phone, if I can 'prove' the work I'm good (and I can, have scores of jobs whose clients I still do work for today) Also my facebook 'business page' is a month-shy of 2 years old, so 2yr-old-timestamps of me 3:1 z-rig pulling down a storm-injured Oak and other 'non-beginner' stuff, passing the "3yrs test" shouldn't be an issue according to the guy I spoke to but do wish I had 3yrs of real W2's or something

 

[eyehearttrees]

Unfortunately, the ISA doesn’t seem to do much when you report violations; I’ve been reporting a local company here who claims to have been a “certified arborist since 1982” and has the ISA badges all over his website, but is not and has not been for years a certified arborist, and does not appear to even be an ISA member.

I haven’t heard back from the ISA regarding my complaints, not can I find any changes on the website in question. It’s still the same as it’s been for years.

Are you a member of the local chapter? When signing up I did not elect to pay the extra $30 to "be a member of the FL-ISA chapter" (couldn't really understand why I'd wanna do that, they didn't 'sell it' very well lol) but maybe reporting to your local chapter would make the difference?


I've got an uber-critical question: What is the official legitimate URL for proving you've got this-or-that ISA certification, or for checking someone else's (purported) certifications? When I have my cert, I damn-well intend to have the badge 'hyperlink' to a page showing I am, in fact, certified (just seems common sense to me to do so -- I think the ISA offers some "digital badge" that's basically a cookie/app image that directs the viewer to a pasge doing just this, but I wanna be able to look-up who/how many from that company DO have ISA certs, that company I listed earlier (the one that is 'boasting' an "ISA Member" badge)

If I found out someone "in my area" (ie competition-peers) were lying about an ISA cert I would be disgusted and do anything I could to remedy it (actually the ISA's code of ethics basically requires you to, since someone doing work under false-pretenses Re their capacities is inherently dangerous)

 

[Reach]

Are you a member of the local chapter? When signing up I did not elect to pay the extra $30 to "be a member of the FL-ISA chapter" (couldn't really understand why I'd wanna do that, they didn't 'sell it' very well lol) but maybe reporting to your local chapter would make the difference?


I've got an uber-critical question: What is the official legitimate URL for proving you've got this-or-that ISA certification, or for checking someone else's (purported) certifications? When I have my cert, I damn-well intend to have the badge 'hyperlink' to a page showing I am, in fact, certified (just seems common sense to me to do so -- I think the ISA offers some "digital badge" that's basically a cookie/app image that directs the viewer to a pasge doing just this, but I wanna be able to look-up who/how many from that company DO have ISA certs, that company I listed earlier (the one that is 'boasting' an "ISA Member" badge)

If I found out someone "in my area" (ie competition-peers) were lying about an ISA cert I would be disgusted and do anything I could to remedy it (actually the ISA's code of ethics basically requires you to, since someone doing work under false-pretenses Re their capacities is inherently dangerous)

I am a member of the local chapter of the ISA, which does not really seem to mean much except that I get locally focused emails about such things as apple harvesting conditions, which really don’t mean anything to me.

I’m not sure what the “official” page is that you should link to, the ISA can probably help you with that once you’ve become a certified arborist.

Unfortunately it seems the ISA really doesn’t care about the local fake-arborist (who is a frequently loud and boisterous poster on this forum). I’ve reported several times, but cannot seem to get a response, and it seems the ISA doesn’t really have any true enforcement capability, so I’m not sure what they would do besides send an email to the effect of “quit lying or else.” That is yet one more reason I have not bothered to take the CA exam. It just doesn’t mean much. I am a professional arborist, and a rather good one, I’m just not an Arborist.

 

[eyehearttrees]

As an arborist, you can be licensed and/or certified.

No. An ISA Certified Arborist is 1 Certification. They have met the minimal work requirements and passed a test. If they have been for more than 3 years, they kept up their continuing education hours (in my opinion, license/certification/recognition or not, we should all be doing that).

Oceans-- No you cannot be licensed in my area, there is no license (til about 2yrs ago, the local counties' Business Taxes - usually $50/yr paid when you declare you're doing XYZ business in their county - used to be called Occupational Licenses, so lots of guys use that license-#, even though now it's no longer called an Occupational License, so someone like me can only go pay the $50 to get my Business Taxes paid, am not 'grandfathered in' by being able to say "no I do have an occupational-license #" :/
The funny thing is the ISA code of ethics all but binds me to do / say something about the sheer fact of "cowboy land" here in my area, literally anyone can get insured & become a tree-company today if they choose, you have to get a license to cut hair but not to cut trees, anyway when I was signing-up for Membership & ordering my Study Guide, I found that my local chapter is actually petitioning the FL legislature to require some type of licensing (which - once I'm affiliated - kinda absolves my duties by-extension ;D )

ATH -- both here & on arboristsite -- you are always such a helpful trove of information!! Won't address each point since I've covered much in my other replies, but yeah I feel silly I can't believe I didn't figure this out, I'd seen "certified master arborist" and figured that was the ISA certification, incorrectly locking my mind into the idea of 1....I'd have gone for this last fall if I'd known this.....better late than never!! In looking at the Guide and Practice Exam, am pretty confident I can pass (70% IIRC) already as I'm a botany geek and have been for longer than I've been climbing even, but am loving that the book (and needing to learn it for the test/cert) will fill-in all the gaps in my self-taught "botany knowledgebase"!

Thanks a million for the URL to isa's own words on branding, that answers Q's I didn't even know I had yet LOL (like, can I go and advertise "ISA Member" now, since I paid my $130 dues? LOL obviously would not do so - would get eaten alive on social media by local competitors - also don't wanna "tip my hand" that I'm going for this, in case I do need to take the test more than once - as I've got half a dozen companies I know will pay me more for climbs once I have that (up til the first ~quarter of last year, most of my decent climbing was contract-climbing for local "guys with truck" operations, and then some decent "5 truck / 1 chipper" level outfits)

 

[ConeCollector]

'ConeCollector'--- guessing you're into more than just climbin&cuttin' ;D

They were on Thurs., was able to get a good, live person who was eager to help me and explained everything, I was WAY off in my understanding of "the path":


This was my misunderstanding, I understood there was "isa certified arborist" credential that required you take all the other credentials first and have 8yrs with ISA, thought that someone like me would effectively start by picking one of the 6 specialties, and complete all 6 over 8yrs, then be eligible to be an ISA-cert'd-arborist..... I didn't realize there were 2 distinct ISA-ARBORIST certs, the initial one and Master....got some egg on my face because I'd have done this nearly a year ago if I'd understood it properly!!

So yeah anyway my plan now is to get the cert'd arborist ASAP (I signed up as a Member and ordered my text, and may/may not already be studying a pirated copy of an older edition of the text ), and since my membership lets me take exams at-discount I still intend to go for my TRAQ right-after my regular Arborist cert because in my town and all unincorporated areas near me, permits are not required to remove trees but the opinion of an arborist is and there's no statutes explaining just what 'arborist' means in this context, I know w/ the TRAQ I'll be confident & qualified (for basic-level, obviously 'qualified' is on a scale here) The TRAQ is something I would want to take anyways, in fact it was the only one of the 6 I really wanted, because I trust my gear and myself it's the trees themselves that often present the biggest uncertainties for me, so the TRAQ is win-win and, if already enrolled in ISA, just makes sense to go for it IMO!


I'd disagree, because in my area there's no other way to distinguish oneself, I mean sure facebook/google ratings and all that (which, of course, I'm taking advantage of - the platforms at least, for some reason neither service is allowing feedback/ratings/reviews for me, has been over 6mo and both still let my clients think they submitted feedback, but it never shows up ...
But the reality is my username isn't hyperbolic it's literal, all I do is trees, in the short while that I may/may not have had online access to an older copy of the Study Guide for this, I'm halfway through chapter 1 and stoked that I've expanded my understanding of the layers of tissue produced from the cambium-- I'd been thinking "This book is the resource that could've answered all the Q's that the bonsai&gardening forums couldn't" lol (I've been hacking trees in my nursery for half dozen years now, would've been trying to 'compete' / exhibit two of my best specimen this year (I have over 100) but going from contract work to "solo company" has taken basically every minute I have!!


I appreciate this very very much and may take you up on that Taking today off to "clean house", metaphorically (AND literally) speaking, and intend to review everything to ensure I'm understanding everything 100%, think I'm about there now! Biggest "uncertainty" for me is the application to take the test, you have to have 3yrs' experience.....I have more-than that (and they even allow "nursery employee" and "landscape company" experience, which puts me more near 7yrs than the ~3.5yrs I can show of actual real tree work) Problem is that I was doing everything under-table.....but in speaking with the representative on the phone, if I can 'prove' the work I'm good (and I can, have scores of jobs whose clients I still do work for today) Also my facebook 'business page' is a month-shy of 2 years old, so 2yr-old-timestamps of me 3:1 z-rig pulling down a storm-injured Oak and other 'non-beginner' stuff, passing the "3yrs test" shouldn't be an issue according to the guy I spoke to but do wish I had 3yrs of real W2's or something

I’m stoked to hear about your successes this week!
when I was going through this process years ago my mentor helped me figure much of the little technical details out. If you don’t have a tree mentor in your town I recommend finding one. Use the find an arborist function on the ISA website and identify someone with a company and life style you admire and respect and ask them for a little helping hand. See if you can set up once a month meeting and beers maybe. I’ve found most established tree people to be genuinely interested in mentoring up and coming arborist. It’s also in the best interest of the industry as it will raise the standard of tree care and everyone will benefit from a more professional industry.
The internet is a great resource but nothing can replace a mentor working in your area that knows you very well and can guide you.
Good luck! Don’t be shy about reaching out.

 

[ATH]

@eyehearttrees good luck on the exam. Be sure to let us know when you are official!

Value of local chapter: attend local events (Ohio, for example has annual conference as well as local climbing championship if you are interested). I also get notices about other activities. They even advertise non-ISA stuff. Well worth it in my opinion. The chapter conference is one of the better learning events I attend each year...but not every chapter will be as well organized. If yours is not, join and volunteer to help get them there!

 

[eyehearttrees]

I’m stoked to hear about your successes this week!

Thank you!! Last Nov I insured myself because being a contract climber in my area sucks, then endured nearly 6 months of fighting to keep my schedule full (including Sat&Sun "hunting for trees & knocking when I find them" / fliers sessions, wearing branded t-shirts anytime I'm outdoors etc), then last month I stopped having trouble filling the schedule -- now I'm no longer "padding it" with palm tree work but actually getting to work mostly Oaks and bigger, better stuff each week JUST finished an air-cannon so very very excited for how quickly things could change once my weakest point - setting my lines/throwing - becomes as simple as point&shoot (have multiple throwbags en route to me right now, so I can be sure to dial it in just right, though it's already very impressive with a crappy old bag!)

when I was going through this process years ago my mentor helped me figure much of the little technical details out. If you don’t have a tree mentor in your town I recommend finding one. Use the find an arborist function on the ISA website and identify someone with a company and life style you admire and respect and ask them for a little helping hand. See if you can set up once a month meeting and beers maybe. I’ve found most established tree people to be genuinely interested in mentoring up and coming arborist. It’s also in the best interest of the industry as it will raise the standard of tree care and everyone will benefit from a more professional industry.

I wish I could find someone like that :/ Have used the forums for half a century (longer actually) for my bonsai/gardening, then trees-in-general, interests....and thankfully am in a position where this textbook (ISA arb-cert-study-guide) is literally enjoyable for me -- I literally already had a bootleg copy I'd torrented -- but now that I have reason to actually go-through it I am just enthralled, and having difficulty "choosing chapters" (started w/ Plant Biology Chpt.1, then Pruning, now fighting to decide which chapter I'll be reading tonight!), gonna do a chapter per day - reading/no notes - then repeat that, taking notes on anything that I think I'd have trouble verbalizing in essay-format (test seems to have lots of multiple choice lol), meaning I can be ready for the Pearson Vue online-testing in 1 month So:

@eyehearttrees good luck on the exam. Be sure to let us know when you are official!

Thank you I will!! My intention -- almost embarrassed to say, since I may be far far off, especially since 2 chapters do need real learning / aren't already material I know, but my intention is to get a score I can boast about!!! Will certainly report back after becoming official, hopefully it's not just saying "I got a 78%" LOL! I'm a total tree nerd my username wasn't hyperbole I mean yesterday I got to play in an Oak all afternoon, then fine-pruned a 4' bald cypress bonsai's roots at home til the mostquitoes ate me/sun abandoned me, then went and drooled over which chapter (chose Pruning) in my study guide I'd let myself read before bed This book is a godsend I'd have purchased it outright, independent of the cert, if I'd realized its density!!

 

[evo]

You are correct in your explanation- bonds exist to protect the customer from your non-fulfillment of the contract. Typically only contractors working on government projects or VERY large private projects are required to be bonded, and most bonds (to the best of my knowledge) are attached to a specific contract, not to a contractor.

Here in Washington we have the option to be a ‘specialty’ contractor, or a general contractor. A the difference is the task we can do, and if we can hire sub contractors. A specially requires less insurance and a 6k bond, a general more insurance and a 10k bond.
There are a few business types that don’t require this like a lawn mowing company, etc..

 

[Reach]

Here in Washington we have the option to be a ‘specialty’ contractor, or a general contractor. A the difference is the task we can do, and if we can hire sub contractors. A specially requires less insurance and a 6k bond, a general more insurance and a 10k bond.
There are a few business types that don’t require this like a lawn mowing company, etc..

Thank you, I’ve learned something new today!

 

[dspacio]

Thanks for the discussion. I have considered going for the ISA cert since my groundie days, read the study book a few times, and three or four ANSI books.

I have been reluctant to call myself an "arborist" as part of me just feels like a tree guy who learned by free climbing old apples and pears, clearing trails and bucking firewood, hauling a lot of logs around, chipping, reading books and felling trees. My tree ID is full of holes and my pathology knowledge kind of stops at "that tree has discoloration, bare branches and looks sick." I am more akin to a faith healer than a doctor but I perform surgery and have climbed trees as long as I remember. I stayed intelligent by being more observant of trees than schooling.

I've got a lot of respect for the experts. I will keep reading the greats and studying from my life experience. The ISA is a great accolade to aspire to. Yet I have come pretty far without degrees, rarely a resume, and generally making my way by being trustworthy and doing it over and over again. One day I may be a true Arborist but for now I am still practicing. I love it.

Becoming an ISA Member sounds great too. See you there!

 

[evo]

Thanks for the discussion. I have considered going for the ISA cert since my groundie days, read the study book a few times, and three or four ANSI books.

I have been reluctant to call myself an "arborist" as part of me just feels like a tree guy who learned by free climbing old apples and pears, clearing trails and bucking firewood, hauling a lot of logs around, chipping, reading books and felling trees. My tree ID is full of holes and my pathology knowledge kind of stops at "that tree has discoloration, bare branches and looks sick." I am more akin to a faith healer than a doctor but I perform surgery and have climbed trees as long as I remember. I stayed intelligent by being more observant of trees than schooling.

I've got a lot of respect for the experts. I will keep reading the greats and studying from my life experience. The ISA is a great accolade to aspire to. Yet I have come pretty far without degrees, rarely a resume, and generally making my way by being trustworthy and doing it over and over again. One day I may be a true Arborist but for now I am still practicing. I love it.

Becoming an ISA Member sounds great too. See you there!

Don’t be intimidated, I was and studied very hard, and had a significant delay with being eligible to take the test. I took it at year 5-6 in the industry. I have horrible test anxiety, and took the computer based test which didn’t make it any better.

BUT they give you three hours on the test, and I was reprimanded for laughing in the first 5 minutes. I answered everything and when halfway back through to double check. I said to hell with it and just submitted it. 45 minute total time and a 98%+ score.

Many elements of the test aren’t testing on specific knowledge, but testing you on the skills it takes to look for the answers. That is the extent of the tree ID portion. Mostly testing on different types of leaf shapes, seed and branching arrangement. All needed for a correct tree Id but beyond that they took ID off the test!

being certified just means you took a test and SHOULD know better but it’s far from the quality it’s presented to be. Think of it as a high school diploma, gotta learn a bunch of stuff that you might not ever need (I scored low in safety as I had a bunch of bucket truck questions, never been in one, and only worked with one TWICE in my 15 years).

knowing when a tree is sick, likely to recover (or not) and the like is gold. At some point knowing what disease the tree has is a moot point if you know ‘when I see this on a tree it’s not going to make it’

just did so today. A western white pine with blister rust. The tree is doomed, but I happen to know the disease life cycle, how it acts and all the details there of. Does that matter, other than answering questions? Not really, the tree will be a stump one way or the other.

 

[evo]

I should add that I was a certified groundie for about 4-5 years. Didn’t do much other than a badge and a sticker…. But I do tend to hyper focus on things I find interesting like tree work. I attended a international conference and many classes before I took the test. I left with a pile of job offers from other certified arborist with phrases like ‘your not even certified?!?, you know more than my Forman that’s been doing this for 20 years!)….
point is that unfortunately that is where the bar is set. Jump over that mofo already and don’t look back

 

[dspacio]

thanks @evo , I appreciate the encouragement!

It's interesting what you say about tree disease. I have a very developed eye that can see the smallest beginning signals, and look at the trees with more progressed signs (there is something killing birch trees in some forest I am tending. Considering the forest is mega dense logging regrowth, there are plenty around and this disease just helps me identify the weakest trees that I can remove. It's like having Mother Nature as my cruiser... I don't need to name it, just to follow the patterns and signals.
I am kinda strange in that I avoid certain information so my mind isn't clouded or predetermined, I look straight to visible signs and patterns. Anyhoo, I appreciate the reality check surrounding tree and disease ID. I remember that most tree guys I've worked with (many who passed the test) aren't super genius on this stuff either. And they don't read half the books I do!

Thanks for your message ~

 

[eyehearttrees]

BUT they give you three hours on the test, and I was reprimanded for laughing in the first 5 minutes. I answered everything and when halfway back through to double check. I said to hell with it and just submitted it. 45 minute total time and a 98%+ score.

Do you have an academic botany background? Because reading this post made me go and call ISA yesterday to setup my exam, I'd been taking more pages-of-notes than there were pages per chapter, simply because I didn't know if the test was more "DMV level" or "college level" so I'd been prepping for the latter (which I've been hearing is overkill, but reading your post I'm now happy to go for it!!)

Got >80% on the practice q's before reading the book, am over halfway done now - and will finish the book - but am now trying to figure out how to cram my "no receipts/no taxes personal work-experience" into their application-forms, cannot say I'm having fun with this!! I actually was a "standard groundie" for a summer about 4yrs ago so am thinking to go talk to him (we still have a professional relationship he picks-up logs when I make more waste than I can haul), but that wasn't taxed/official/on-book so am afraid he'll be hesitant about letting me use him....but w/o him it's just "I promise I really did the work on these days", thankfully my facebook page has a 2yr old post of me doing a z-rig pullover of a hazard oak, obviously that's not 3yrs as-required but hoping that'll at least inspire some level of "this job was obviously not a new sawyer"!

Thanks a ton for your contributions to this thread it's been of immense help to me, I try keeping my trap shut for most posts but just wanted to say how appreciative I am!

 

[evo]

Do you have an academic botany background? Because reading this post made me go and call ISA yesterday to setup my exam, I'd been taking more pages-of-notes than there were pages per chapter, simply because I didn't know if the test was more "DMV level" or "college level" so I'd been prepping for the latter (which I've been hearing is overkill, but reading your post I'm now happy to go for it!!)

Got >80% on the practice q's before reading the book, am over halfway done now - and will finish the book - but am now trying to figure out how to cram my "no receipts/no taxes personal work-experience" into their application-forms, cannot say I'm having fun with this!! I actually was a "standard groundie" for a summer about 4yrs ago so am thinking to go talk to him (we still have a professional relationship he picks-up logs when I make more waste than I can haul), but that wasn't taxed/official/on-book so am afraid he'll be hesitant about letting me use him....but w/o him it's just "I promise I really did the work on these days", thankfully my facebook page has a 2yr old post of me doing a z-rig pullover of a hazard oak, obviously that's not 3yrs as-required but hoping that'll at least inspire some level of "this job was obviously not a new sawyer"!

Thanks a ton for your contributions to this thread it's been of immense help to me, I try keeping my trap shut for most posts but just wanted to say how appreciative I am!

I was in the exact same boat when I was eligible to take the test. I had all the experience I needed, but under the table work. I had 3 other certified arborist willing to vouch that I had the years, and my employers wife (he died in a work accident). The ISA basically said NO it has to be verifiable wages and blah blah…. It pissed me off so bad that I waited a few more years than I needed to, so I had ample experience and studied twice for it. When it came down to it, the ISA never called or checked in at all, with any of it in any way shape or form.
Just before this I went to a international and watched many arbs sharing ceu codes in the hallway easily cheating. I asked at the official desk if they cross reference to see if one can be in two ‘classes’ at the same time, and if there is any enforcement. The response was bullshit, something about how that doesn’t happen, and why would they waste the time checking, all arborist have to sign a code of ethics so no one can possibly be a cheat.
After that I continued to observe doors being opened at the end of lectures and random faces popping in to write the ceu codes down and walking back out.