ISA Cert Tree Worker/ Climber Specialist

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Whatever the cost, it's wasted since 98% of the people out there STILL do not know what an Arborist is....

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I am inclined to agree the ISA could do more to promote the profession, the organization, and the certification program, but we as arborists must bear some responsibility for that, as well. Until they are shopping for tree work, most people don't tune in to ads about tree care, so when we get a chance to talk to them, we need to do our part to separate ourselves from teh competition.

I have a magnetic sign and a yard sign with my name and "ISA Certified Arborist" on it. I have a tag line on all my consultation forms and invoices that tells people the ISA web address. I tell my clients they are getting a certified arborist in their trees, and not just one who shows up to sell the job, and explain what theat means when they'll listen. I spend time in gardening discussions and every time I post an answer to a question (usually tree-related) my sig line includes the ISA links. I tell people to visit the consumer info links at the ISA site to educate themselves before calling for bids so they can recognize BS when an unqualified or unethical arborist feeds it to them (say what you will about the money machine, I haven't seen many disputes about the accuracy of the info they offer).

Instead of saying, "I do all this, now what is the ISA gonna do for me?" I try to think of new ways to help the ISA get the word out. If I don't get a job but I educate a consumer to hire someone else who is performing proper tree care, I consider that a partial victory.

It's been said here and elsewhere many times that we are a young profession in the public's eyes. The ISA can only do so much to open those eyes, and we all help each other when we do our share.

Keith
 
I strongly agree that the system is not perfect nor is it complete. However it is all we have for now and i hope that in the least that it will provide a better enviroment and give the hard working people in this industry some foundation in the future. But you can not entirely blame the I$A for the lack of real and complete arborists in this world today. You also have to include some of the companys out there too because there are companys like BARTLETT, DAVEY, SAVATREE, ETC that like to use the old marketing scheme to spread thier word like we have certified arborists that also have degrees in forestry, horticulture which means in laymens terms we hired a guy that went to school and got a degree in a related field and obtained his I$A certification and spent three months on a spray rig so they can say he has exstensive training in the field and now he is out there selling tree care and telling guys that have been doing it for twenty years what to do. What i am trying to say is that i have been raised on the principle that the profession you choose in life should be something you are knowledgable in and have experienced that profession from the bottom up. there is no substitute for experience and there is no school that i know of on this planet that teaches experience.education is only as good as the experience you have to back it up. You see i have been in this business for twenty years and i have worked in every level of this industry i feel i am knowledgable and well seasoned and I certainly do not claim to know it all or have all the answers because just like all of you guys I am just a student in this school called life . I currently am working in sales full time an after being in the field all these years I can truly say i freaking hate it more than i hate anything on this planet. I hate it because all the arborists i work with (which i personally do not consider arborists) are a bunch of whiny little college boys that got to bypass all the crap in this business and go straight into sales and barking orders at all the guys that are covering thier asses for thier poorly priced jobs.I have been pretty successful my sales are good i sell as much as them and my return per man hour is right where it needs to be while these college boys are averaging a 10 to 15 dollars loss per man hour and the crew morale is low when they work for thes guys. But in the end what it comes down to is i have the same credentials as these guys and 10 times the experience but because i do not have a college degree and i am not as marketable as these guys and that is what it all boils down to and that is why we have so many of these clowns out there. So i blame the I$a for allowing and keeping these loopholes in place so these money hungry companies can use this certification as just another tool for thier marketing schemes and not for its intended purpose which is to educate and promote better and safer arboricultural practices.So if you want to blame the I$A thats ok but do not forget to include these nation wide fake arborist producing machines that are spitting these guys out as fast as the jews left christ.
 
Amen I can't stand whiny college boys ...........Chad that means you!

Seriously though Blue Fin that is a mistake for companies to put guys out there to bid jobs who have no idea what it takes to do a tree job. A degree these days is only a starting point for some in this industry. I have seen a lot of guys though who carry a chip on their shoulder versus the "college boys" sometimes for good reasons(i.e. the college boys being worthless), but they also let these whiny c-boys intimidate them. They figure they can't pass the CA or won't get a promotion b/c this or that when it is all in their head. The non-cboys coud get promoted just as easily with a little ambition.

I totally agree that if you want to do sales you should do your time in the tree, haul the brush, and respect and learn from more experienced arborists.

So anybody else taken the CTW-CS? This subject posting has mushroomed into quite the topic.
 
When ever I read one of these ISA/CA type threads I always wonder about the nay sayers. How many are ISA members currently or in the past? How many are certified currently or in the past? For those that are past members or CA's did you do anything to improve the chapter or cert program? Did you attend any chapter meetings to offer suggestions? What other associations are you members in? What other certifications programs have you been part of?

"If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" is the saying that runs through my mind. Is the system perfect? NO...there will never be a perfect system. Does the system work? Yes, years ago most tree workers didn't know what an arborist was, now most do. Of course ISA didn't do all of that but they did have a part.

For those that whine about the price of certification, you should look to see what it really costs. As an ISA member it cost $125 for the exam and then $100 for recertification every 3 years. that = $41.666666 per year for the first 3 years and $33.33333 per year for the remaining years. My cost if I were not a CA is a minimum of $10k-$20k per year in contracts that require CA. I also get an unknown amount (aprox. $10k-$15k per year)of work for extension referals because they only refer CA's.

My beef with CA was I felt the test was way to easy. You NJ CTE's know what I mean.

Eric R. Engstrom

Massachusetts Certified Arborist
Massachusetts Certified Horticulturalist
International Society of Arboriculture Certified Arborist
New Jersey Certified Tree Expert
Pennsylvania Certified Horticulturalist
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
How many are ISA members currently or in the past? How many are certified currently or in the past? For those that are past members or CA's did you do anything to improve the chapter or cert program? Did you attend any chapter meetings to offer suggestions?

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I was certified about 9 years ago I think. My employer paid for it, I was not an ISA member. Another co-worker also took the test with me. After we both passed (You're right, it was way too easy) he started getting correspondence from the ISA including a monthly magazine and periodic letters informing him of his CEU status. I never got a single thing, even after contacting the ISA several times. I had access to CEU's and even kept track of them for a while but lost interest since the ISA didn't even bother returning my calls or letters.
After three years, they sent me a letter saying I could renew my Certified status if I sent them money. By that time I was fairly well through with them.
 
oh no estebandicameltoe. am i the whiny college boy? steve and i work together and it seems he wanted to carry our jobsite sarcasm onto treebuzz! yes steve your thread did balloon way past the initial question and i am partial blame. here is some info for you steve about the tree worker cert...
www.isa-arbor.com/arborists/arborist.html
click on isa tree worker application and it gives the test layout, requirements, etc.
if that doesnt work try
www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com
and choose about isa category on the left.
 
There is a commitee here in NJ, Commitee for the Advancement in Arboriculture (CAA). They have certifications on the production level where you have to actually display your abilities in the tree. A observed work climb, aerial rescue and a short book test are required to achieve a status of "CAA First Class Climber".

I think NJ may set the bar as far as luring quality tree guys to recognize the positives of becoming "certified".

In NJ, if you are a CAA First Class Tree Climber and a NJ State Certified Tree Expert, you are allowed to call yourself a CAA Master Arborist. For which I am #28 and proud of it.
 
Seems to me that there are several different types of Cert. in the field of Arboriculture that overlap in the areas of higher learning as well as professional organizations.

For example, why have a 'Master' isa cert. when the American Society of Consulting Arborists has been doing the same type of educational requirements to get their cert? And have been for many years.
Most cities require an Arborists Report to install major developments within city limits and the ASCA organization is well recognized and accepted by developers and city planning officers.

is the 'isa master' any better recognized in this critical area?

Or for that matter a degree in ornamental horticulture? Is the 'isa master' cert. any better than a 4 year degree? Is the 'isa master' cert. held in the same light as a 4 year degree in a similar field of expertize?

In addition, you dont need to have ANY type of tree knowledge to become a member of TCIA. BUT the stickers and logos you can put on ads and your trucks certainly make even the biggest hack seem professional and skilled.

I think the worst thing that could happen is to have all these competing organizations working against each other.
Frans
 
We started up a CT program here 3 years ago. I also became a moderator simultaniously. I haven't "moderated" a single test since then. Your 30 CEU's now becomes 45 CEU's if you want to keep your CA current as well as your CT. I believe you have to specify where you want your CEU's to go...
Mine, has expired, CT that is. I probably could retake the CT exam, and pass, For cheaper than I could get the 15 Ceu's. I guess I can get an extension and read some Arbor age mags. for those 15. I guess my point is it hasn't really benefitted me in the way my CA has.
 
Chad has a good analogy. ISA have done well in creating certifications, helping career paths,and educating ourselves and the public in many ways that we might not think. However they are a money grab organisation. Their renewal policy that you have to recertify ( ie pay ) every three years is pathetic. If you are certified , are active in the industry, then you shouldn't need to cough up every three years. Imagine this : you are a CA, CTW, and now MA,! ....congrats you are indebpted to ISA for the rest of your working career.
 
In Europe we have the European Tree Worker certification invented by the European Arboricultural Council. The certification is good for all of the EU pluss other European countries.It states that people with this certification has a certain level of skills in climbing and arboricultural knowledge. It is not ulike the tree climber certification of ISA. At least in my area public buyers are asking for this certification when putting treecare contracts on the market.
Svein
www.hogstogrydding.no
 
I used to disagree with the whole money grab issue,BUT after mailing in a whole bunch of ceu's from the compendula set and not getting them credited..I AM Pissed off.in december i have to renew and dont have enough ceu's...i am thinking about taking the ctw exam for the ceu's but no way in hell do i want to have an extra 15 ceus to have to get later.
when i was running my company in nor cal..i asked the isa for some help in educating the public, and on the phone they had some ideas but when it came down to it they would only give suggestions...also most of us in humboldt had to drive four to eight hours to go somewhere to get ceu's, and they isa didnt have interest in doing training all the way up there.4 hours from santa rosa)....who the hell wouldnt want to work on 150' plus trees...there were so many different trees to study..lightning struk, decayed, root crown excavations, reistograph use, ariel rescue, etc, the list was endless and i now feel they are a book selling money grub....but i have to stay current (for my employer)so i am stuck for awhile longer
and i do work for 1 whiney college guy and 1 "came from the field guy"..the college guy can give a thesis on a trim but cant do it
 
If you check out the latest ISA catalog (2006), it has the newly revised Tree Climbers Guide by Sharon Lilly. The catalog says this is the basic text for the Tree Worker program. My book came with a 4 page photo copy of the tree climbing skills evaluation form. You can see all the tasks you need to preform on the test. For example, you get one minute per knot and they only have 6 knots to do. There is also a short video that is avalible about the skills and knots. By the way there are great photos of REAL arborists on the job in this catalog. Nice one of Mark /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif on the page the Tree Climbers Guide. ~Treena
 
"...after mailing in a whole bunch of ceu's from the compendula set and not getting them credited..I AM Pissed off.in december i have to renew and dont have enough ceu's.."

1. Why didn't the compendia tests get credited? I have a pile to send in and I know that if I keep copies I will be sure to get credited.

2. Why don't you check out http://www.on-line-seminars.com/

you can get 7.5 ceu's free of charge.
 
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