interesting position raised at tci.

Y

Yoav

Location
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
What do you think of this post at treeclimbing.com?


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Author: Subject: Tree Climbing with Others!
Abram

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Posts 5
Registered 22-9-2003
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posted on 28-5-2004 at 21:36

Tree Climbing with Others!

Recently I have read 2 entries on this site and within the last month have heard of 2 other conversations that prompt me to say the following. Tree climbing outside of the commericial/professional area is just over 20 years old. Many have come and gone over the years and some of us are still around. I got my beginnings some 15+ years ago from the founder of recreational tree climbing, Peter Jenkins, of which this web site and message board is owned. As of this week and through the years he and I along with others have brought tree climbing to interested folks around the world. Always from, the beginning to and including the present SAFTEY has been at the forefront and the hallmark of recreational/technical tree climbing. However as tree climbing has grown so has the interest in others to participate; some with proper training and this is good to yet an alarming number that wish to by pass a formal training class for excuses that cover all kinds of things from A to Z. This is bad enough for someone that is all about themselves, but to take it a step further and try to facilitate others and yet another step further to teaching others is frought with DANGER! I have been a part of TCI for 15+ years and have had my own Grove and tree climbing school for over 8 years and to learn of people and camps and organizations and schools etc. that would permit any adventure/experiential program to be conducted without their staff being properly trained, grove designated, tree/s area properly cleaned and prepped, adequate and proper equipment used, and protocols of climbing established is very SCARY to me and ripe for serious problems to develope. If you are going to climb for yourself take at least the Basic Class and perhaps later the Beyond the Basics. If you are going to conduct climbing for others such as in a group climb you MUST have a minimumof the Basic Class and the Facilitator Class. And if you are going to do both of the forementioned and wish to teach others the Basic or how to Facilitate then at the LEAST you must have compleated the apprenticeship program and or taken the Instructors Course. And this is to only work/climb with the general populations. Should you wish to climb with special populations then additional training is required. These levels of training are of the minimum as years of practice and working in the feild of adventure/experiential programming will continue to teach you new and more complete methods of being safe as will the litature and ongoing training and gatherings you attend. DO NOT SHORT CHANGE YOUR APPROACH TO TREE CLIMBING! Yes, it is fun, and a joy and many of us did it as a child, but it is serious business once you get yourself or anyone else off the ground. We began with a safe vertical adventure some 20 years ago and I for one will do all I can to continue to keep this history as perfect as I can.
 
Like any consumer decision, it makes sense for the consumer to research and qualify their decision. TCI is the leader in rec tree climbing, no arguement. But...I feel comfortable teaching and leading without going through their training. That said, how does a consumer know how to set qualifications? If they have web access it seems that anyone would be able to learn at least the basics of what to know about an instructor that they might hire.

Just because someone isn't aligned with TCI doesn't mean that they aren't a qualified instructor. Please don't take this as an arguement with TCI. They have an excellent program for learning and instructing. A consumer would be in good hands with someone who is aligned with TCI.
 
Yes, people should have some sort of training in order to climb safely. There are many aspects that are not necessarily obvious to a newcomer and must be learned in order to climb safely.

But this is a huge leap to the above conclusion that TCI and ONLY TCI is qualified to instruct climbers. What a load of horse dung! Just because this clown has been climbing 15 years does not mean he is the ONLY one who has been climbing 15 years. I've climbed 15 years also, without any training from TCI, and I'm as qualified as anyone in my area. It is true that most tree climbers (including myself) are egomaniacs and this letter writer makes it painfully obvious. Just because he thinks he is the world's best climber does not make him the world's only qualified trainer.
 
Hi Rocky J,
Training should only be done compentant instructors... I'm going to steal a line from LOLER here!!!! "The definition of a compentant person is conspicuous by its absence"

Later

Didj
 
This is what I just posted at TCI in response to this:

quote:
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Originally posted by Abram
If you are going to conduct climbing for others such as in a group climb you MUST have a minimumof the Basic Class and the Facilitator Class.
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quote:
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Originaly posted by Dan House: I feel that the TCI certification method is currently the only recreational tree climbing instruction that is being offered with the best level of concern to safety, quality, cost and insurance.
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These statements and these postings are transparent attempts at taking credit for and monopolizing control over the many varieties of recreational tree climbing, an art which probably has its origins with our tree-dwelling ancestors.

To claim that TCI created this activity and that only TCI has the competence to teach it proves only that the level of egotism of its staff is exceeded only by its arrogance - and demonstrates that TCI doesn't deserve the place in this sport that it so desperately tries to hold on to.

If the concern was truly for safety, then follow RedPanda's suggestion and post your safety and instructional standards rather than keep them tightly controlled as an economic commodity.

Whatever respect I might have had for TCI has been squandered by these self-serving postings. I think you owe the climbing community a sincere apology. And then show your integrity by widely disseminating the standards you believe are necessary for safe practice and instruction.
_______________________________________________________________________________

I'm all in favor of voluntary national standards, but they should be developed by an unafiliated non-profit or trade association. If the primary consumer-oriented business in the field claims the sole right to set the standards for the industry, then it's clear that they're more concerned about maintaining their control and their market rather than disseminating the practice.

- Robert
 
Point-CounterPoint about courses

How many times do I have to type that my postings are only my feelings and opinions.

What you call transparent attempts are my sincere feelings that I urge the student to select an instruction method that best suits the student’s own best interests.

I am not trying to take credit for recreational climbing but I know Peter Jenkins was the first one teaching classes only for the recreational climber and is confirmed as the founder.

I see no need to apologize to the “recreational” climbing community because all of my posting are self-serving, egotistical, arrogant and even at times thought-provoking; OK maybe not all of them but when I wish to entertain I can be thrilling but when I am instructing I teach each and every point the same way until I know the student has mastered the skill.

You can do the same with or without TCI certification and the students will be the only one to that will have to judge for their own.
 
Re: Point-CounterPoint about courses

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Originally posted by Dan House
What you call transparent attempts are my sincere feelings that I urge the student to select an instruction method that best suits the student’s own best interests.

[/ QUOTE ]
BUNK. What you said was the student can choose but there is only one training program that is really worth taking - all others are compromised in some way.
 
Re: Point-CounterPoint about courses

Dcp_0172.jpg

Training people to climb is an exercise in patience. Lots of work situations don't allow enough time to focus on the basics, but rush right into production. The goal of cutting branches can cast a hurried shadow over the entire climb.

Recreational climbers are in it for a different type of experience that arborists probably can't relate to in some ways. There is a vestigial remnant of a memory of climbing just for the thrill, but the treeworker's primary orientation of accomplishment of a task pervades the session.

The role of instructor is quite valuable in imparting the plethora of items essential to survival of the student climber. This unselfish service sorts out the unnecessary chaff that can blanket the newcomer's experience. Tree Climbers International has classes not just in climbing, but in how to teach.

TCI Treeclimbing classes

I don't know of any arborist classes aimed at the instructor. The tree care industry has the serious problem of an untrained workforce with little chance of receiving the attention dedicated to it's improvement.

Separating the teaching from the doing is an item that doers have difficulty relating to. Teaching actually borders on work, as opposed to the student's play. It should be serious, but productive, considering the possibility of injury if mistakes are made.

Of course, any sourpuss can turn a fun activity like treeclimbing into work. This goes for the teacher as well as the student. I guess any online discussion of a fun topic can turn into an arguement, too. Respect is what its all about, anyway. "An' everbody knew you don't give no lip to Big John"

Does anybody know who is putting on the Kids Climb at the ISA conference? What do they have planned? Aside from watching the competition, putting these kids in the saddle is the funnest thing about attending the jamboree.

Maybe someday there will be organized classes at this event?
 
Re: Point-CounterPoint about courses

_Deletion_

I don't know of any arborist classes aimed at the instructor. The tree care industry has the serious problem of an untrained workforce with little chance of receiving the attention dedicated to it's improvement.

_Deletion_

Not so! I had a powerful climber trainin at the ISA Penn-Del climbing course which was a 5 day real climbing experience for 5 days.

Get out of your head,
Jack
 
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