Important!!!! need your imput please.

T

treejockey

Location
Kansas City
I have a question for you all, especially if you own a tree company from the midwest. I am going to court with one of my clients who has not paid his bill. Normally if it was a small bill, I would just cut my loses and go on. Well this guy makes it a custom of getting services for 50cents on the dollar. The bill is nearly 20K yes 20K so I am suing him to get my money. The only reason why he is not paying is he does not feel like it was worth that amount.
My question is what amount per hour do you usually try to get. I try to hit 60-80.oo per-man hour for a climber. I know this is a touchy subject but if you would like to PM me it will be kept confidential, this is only for my general knoledge and for my attorney to present as a general rule, that the amount that I charged my client was a reasonable amount. Because the job was so big I just charged him a daily rate of 1200 a day for eight hours and we would do anything he wanted us to do, or what we thought needed done.
Your comments are appreciated
Thanks Rich
 
Sorry to hear to you got stiffed that bad.

If the daily rate was 1200 I take it that's for a few men/machinery or combo there of. If he took up your rate then my calcs show he must have run up around 16 days.

If he were unhappy with the first or second day why didn't he stop then? Why go to 16 days and not pay?

I also think you should be armed with comparative charges for example, mechanics here charge 75 hour, plumber about the same and they dont work in anywhere near as hazardous environment.

I think you'll win the case but what they'll do is try to discount you down on crappy stuff like productivity, competance, break downs and breaks for staff, weather, etc... be prepared for that ... seriously, get the weather reports for the days in question ... he might argue your guys stood around for 4 hours whilst it rained or something.

I think if you have a good lawyer it will be straight forward but remember ... they're going to get ugly and tell fishing stories ... you know, blow things out of proportion, be well armed, time sheets, fuel dockets and anything that supports your case.

Good luck, it's sad but unfortunately there are buggers like that around ... we used to call them professional debtors. Once you win go fast for the money or he'll swindle that out of you, getting judgement is just the first step, many think that is victory but it's just a govt endorsed IOU till you get the green ... be swift and merciless ... may the judge see his BS.
 
Not sure how business law is in your state, but here this is a common occurance, we will generally file a notice to owner when contracts are above $5,000.00.
Puts a lean on the property untill bill is paid in full and stops some of the problem, not all but that is what lawyers are for.

Sorry about your being stiffed, we general bill between $55.00 to $75.00 per man hour, it depends on the difficulty of the job and relationship with client.
 
[ QUOTE ]
People have a tendency to confuse "Tree" work with "Free" work

[/ QUOTE ]

That's OK. I'll educate em...
 
You didn't mention anything about a signed contract. Not that a signed contract means much, just wondering. Definitly file a lein on the property for any remaining balance.

Good luck
 
I'm tellin' you guys. We need to get a tatoo like Jesse James on the palms of our hands that read,"Pay up Sucker!" See Attachment. /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 

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Seriously: Treejockey, I am sorry for the painful process you are going through. I had a smaller scale situation just this last week.

#1- I never met the lady in person. She had a rental and told me where her property was. Told me the trees. I estimated, got the job, and didn't think she'd hold out on me. I have done transactions like this in the past where the customer and myself trust eachother to do a regular business transaction. I have successfully done jobs with never meeting the customer. (Weird, but it happens).

But this was different. I completed a small Saturday for $440 dollars. The customer said she would be at the rental property to see my work and "square up" with me then. She didn't show or call me. To make a long story short. She evaded my phone calls, lied to me with conflicting stories as to why she couldn't get money to me, and finally she paid me Tuesday evening. I was wondering if I would have to take her to small claims, but in the end she caughed up the green stuff. But, I was worried I'd never see a check.

So, I could not imagine the position you are in right now. Fight hard to defend your business!
 
Thanks,
there was no written contract however, there was a verbal contract and the owner was there every day watching us work.
I figured he has the money to pay cause he has an astin-martin vanquish and four BMWS in his drive way and his house is worth about 2.1million he also has had 8 judgement against him in the past 5 years as well as has 4 cases against him right now in court. We go to trial April third, in ks we can get total amount plus 10%apr from the date he owes and costs. He lied in his deposition and we almost got punitive damages then we really could have dug deep into his pocket for all the pain he has suffered but the judge said that it was not worth punitive damages. OH well. This guy does have deep pockets and lots of lawyers, but I have friends in high places, and a good lawyer and I am on the side of right so, he will pay up eventually.
 
I get a little nervous doing those "do whatever you think is right" jobs. Some people are such tightwads. He probably didn't get 4 BMWs by pissing away his money....
 
use straight round up to spray "deadbeat" on his front lawn. Or you could kill all his trees with garlon balloons. I've heard of guys parking in front of driveways for hours also. It gets ugly
 
I go to court on MONDAY Yea after two years I might actually get a judgement so I can get my money. I do have to wait 30 days before any judgement is final. He also lied again in a request for discovery so that is considered fraud, and we will ask for punitive damages also if the judge allows it. I hope we will be able to dig deep into this jerks pocket, for ripping me and a whole bunch ofother hard working small business owners off by not paying his bill.
 
I Won of course. He tried to sue for some consumer protection act that was totally bogus but. OH well!!! figured that he will have to shell out about 30K by the time he pays me, my lawyer and then his lawyers and court costs.
 
Anything over 1k gets a written contract and 35 or 50% down on the job depending if we have to rent/hire outside services (crane lift yada yada). Also in the contract is the payment plan were the stumps are seperate so we can be paid for the work done thus far and come back to grind.

Over 10k for me gets 35 or 50% down and pay as you go work. At any given time I dont like having a single person owing me more than 10 grand, the shock factor can get to them.

Granted the second paragraph hasnt been used much in my company thus far, and there is always the exceptions. For instance for work with our bank, a local university, and a few private clients dont require a contract, most of those dont require a bid either.
 
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