Im new to the business, but never climbed before. Any advice?

[SomethingWitty]

I don't consider myself a master, and I'm a pretty fast learner that has spent 8 years really focused on it... And every year or so I realize how little I knew just a short while ago.

Don't let them fool you. Chippers can lose money anywhere.

 

[Jorgon1022]

Why are you guys offended? Because I was honest and straightforward with you and told you my motives? Arent you glad that there are people out there that respect your industry enough to ask you guys for help?

Instead, most of you just started questioning my motives, offered no help whatsoever and just took offense to me wanting to make money.

Most people that start legitimate businesses are passionate about business and helping others. You think Window Cleaners are passionate about cleaning windows? Or people that get into the waste business, are they passionate about trash?

No, a lot of these people are passionate about helping others and making money in the process. A lot of you say that I cant just get up on a tree and start climbing. I agree. But why wouldn't I be able to hire someone much more knowledgeable than me to do the work? Why not hire smarter, more abled people than I?

You wouldn't respect me as your boss or as a business owner because Ive never done the work? That's your ego talking and frankly I wouldn't want someone that sensitive working for me.

You guys get mad when you see hacks cutting away trees, doing it in an unsafe manner, and putting their lives and others in jeopardy.

Yet when someone comes into this forum and genuinely asks for help, you guys try to ridicule them?

 

[Jorgon1022]

Ok, so what about you (@Jorgon1022 ) try to use the actually helpful advice you were given here, and update us in a few months. Maybe you are actually good at doing this, and you just have that bit of something that others before you didn't and that makes you a great bussines owner. We'll see in a few months.

Absolutely. This is exactly what I plan to do. But regardless, this community probably wont take anything I do well.

Actually, if I fail, they will probably be super happy instead of trying to help me out. If I succeed, they will think im arrogant and showing them up. Cant win with these cats.

 

[islandarb]

@Jorgon1022 you do not understand treefolk or our culture. We are close knit and very unique because of the type of work. Very few industries can mirror this. Sensitive, ha that is a laugh. Your arrogant attitude is what leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I refuse to help someone only in this for the money. Go youtube it.

 

[islandarb]

My son is 7 and climbs trees unaided now. You go get up a tree and show me you are trying to understand what it's like to move around a living majestic piece of pure nature. Then I might be more likely to share some knowledge. I am an asshole but not totally laking in kindness.

 

[Jorgon1022]

@Jorgon1022 you do not understand treefolk or our culture. We are close knit and very unique because of the type of work. Very few industries can mirror this. Sensitive, ha that is a laugh. Your arrogant attitude is what leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I refuse to help someone only in this for the money. Go youtube it.

@swingdude thats literally what im trying to do. Arrogance would be me thinking I dont need any help from any of you.

I joined this forum because I recognize I dont know shit and need to learn. I literally mentioned all the ISA courses I am taking to learn about tree anatomy, biology, climbing, safety standards, etc. Sure, a few courses wont make me an expert, but im trying to take initiative in learning.

How am I displaying arrogance? I know that I cant learn to climb in 3 days. But taking a tree climbing course is a good start and better than nothing isnt it?

And thats great about your son man. I hope I can do what hes doing asap lol. How long would you say it took him to go unaided if you dont mind me asking?

 

[SomethingWitty]

It is a bad business plan to get someone else to do your entire job. They would have to make better money than you. You should either learn the industry by being part of it or just buy a tree service.

I can tell you something I was told early in my career. There's no money in big wood. At least not for a little guy.

 

[islandarb]

Sam started on a 3:1 with me hauling him for his 7th bday. He was so keen That after maybe 3 times like this I decided to move him onto SRT with a wrench and foot/knee ascenders using a chestie to tend system. Been at it like this for 6 months.

 

[Jorgon1022]

It is a bad business plan to get someone else to do your entire job. They would have to make better money than you. You should either learn the industry by being part of it or just buy a tree service.

I can tell you something I was told early in my career. There's no money in big wood. At least not for a little guy.

Let's do this. I will break every expense down after my first job. I will give details on how much I paid a climber, how much I spent on operating expenses, gas, etc and how much I profited from the job.

Here's the average of how much arborists get paid in my area

 

[islandarb]

Oh my....that is very low. I am very small and make easily 100 an hr. Here on my island I work with 1 groundman and pay another man to remove all debris. So different from the mainland where I have done graft before with damn good pro outfits. I am self employed and act essentially like a contract climber. Love my simple style with nearly 0 overheads. Only rent a crane where necessary.

 

[rico]

Let's do this. I will break every expense down after my first job. I will give details on how much I paid a climber, how much I spent on operating expenses, gas, etc and how much I profited from the job.

Here's the average of how much arborists get paid in my area

If you as a tree company owner pay a competent climber $15-$16 an hour then shame on you. You are simply participating in the exploitation of skilled workers doing dangerous work. Fuck that!
I pay brain dead under-skilled nitwits $25 an hour for having the privilege of watching me do 95% of the work.

 

[hseII]

Heres the thing, I have invested heavily these last 3 months in training. Here is what I have done so far:

• Bought the Tree Climbing Course from WesSpur that I will be attending next week. Its a 24 hour course on just climbing. Will try to see if I can go up with chainsaw and all gear.
• Have been rigorously watching youtube videos on how to bring trees down, what to look for, techniques, etc. Also been watching disaster videos of idiots almost killing themselves.
• Bought the ANSI Standards book along with the Tree Climbers Companion. Also bought a tree felling book and a tree rigging book.
• Bought tree climbing DVD's.
• Bought 20 foot ropes to start learning all the knots. Also reading up on what type of knots to use depending on the situation.
• Taking an ISA course on tree biology, tree pruning techniques, and tree climbing.
• Plan to take the Arbormaster course on Rigging in July.

All this training is useless unless i start practicing what I am reading and viewing. I understand that tree work is all about on the job training. I also understand that it is one of the most dangerous professions in the USA, if not the most dangerous. It is because of this that I am here and not just half assing any of this. We all start somewhere and I know that there was a first time for all of you when it came to climbing a tree. I appreciate all your responses and feedback.

When I say that safety is everything to me, this is not just a saying. It is legit the most important thing to me. I am the type of person that will be anal about following ANSI and OSHA standards and have no problem taking 4 hours on a job that should take 2.

Below is an example of a tree that I will be pruning and trimming. This to me was a baby tree but maybe you guys can correct me if I am wrong. Dont mind the dog pooping lol.

Ultimately though, id rather hire experienced arborists that can do the job for me so that I can focus on bringing in the dough and scaling my business. This is hard because since I am just starting out, I cant provide a climber with 40 hours worth of work. So that is a big hurdle that I am trying to go over.

That is the only reason that I am taking all this training.

Find a Local Reputable Company & shadow them for a year or so.

I literally have been trying to accomplish in the last 3.5 years what you think you can do in 6 months.

I’m Currently responsible for the Following:

1. Liability insurance- $3,000/ year starting out. You don’t think so? Go price it with 0 verifiable experience.

2. Chip Truck & Log Truck Insurance-
$5,000/ year
Not the cost of the equipment or the maintenance costs, but just insurance.

3. Loader-
$7,716/ year, including KTAC replacement Insurance.
Local guy has his SVL-95 stolen a couple months ago.


4. $15k in Rigging, saws, & other related OPE.

5. Chip Truck- you couldn’t replace it for $7,500.
6. Log Truck- See above

7. Business License

8. I don’t have a chipper & have been subbing that out- it’s a pain as the guy runs a large full time crew & does the best he can for me, but sometimes he just can’t make it for a few days.

9. Stump Grinder- I don’t own a grinder currently but am looking at this for the above reasons.

Unless you’ve got $200k to invest upfront, it’s a long & hard road, as it should be.

It sucks to complete a $7k job & then wait 2 weeks on payment. You’d better factor that kind of stuff into your business plan.

Consider the advice given in the 1st sentence.


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[hseII]

Question abound. Either this is bs or you are a fool?
Major in Business and jump into a bus/vocation you have no geniune interest in other than it makes bank? Pruning trees isn't even a hobby for you? Where are you and who is your competition? is it that easy to break ground over there?
me, sounds bloody crazy.
9 out of ten people we hire don't make the cut. Romantic idea being an arborist truth is
hardest work there is and owner or worker you will always be somebodies grunt monkey bitch are you prepared to sweat, toil and grind when employees leave you?
just goes to show how messed up this industry really is.
Best of luck, stay safe,

Grunt monkey bitches, and a fuck me? Did Rope get a head start on the rest of us with the evening brew?
Your best post ever, by the way!

So Much Truth In The Above!!’


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[hseII]

Yes.
Here in my area you don't need to be ISA certified. I wish there were a way I could show my knowledge.

I have read up on tree biology, anatomy, etc.

I don't do pest control because I don't know much about that. But that's OK since I can work with someone on that.

I feel many here are just putting alot of buts.

I have always found that where there's a will there's a way. The only viable way I'm seeing after talking to everyone here is to hire climbers so I can focus on the business.

What Business?


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[hseII]

Feel free to come check on that boss. It won't be so passive.

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[hseII]

Really no different than me. I invented something, market, advertised, manufactured etc.
Early on I went looking for help just like you, advice was given, some was taken, in the end, it was the best, I did my best and had some good luck and some bad luck. Some things you just can't forsee we are just trying to be real.
Its a roller coaster of a ride and can be a money eating dragon.
Be true to yourself and best of luck I wish to you and any one else looking for a future in the trees. It really is the best of trades imho

More Dragon & less Ride so far for me.


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[Jorgon1022]

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You pay 3k for liability insurance?

I pay 50 bucks a month. Can show you proof if you'd like.

You are talking about buying all this equipment. That's not necessary starting out. I'm starting little by little. I'm not trying to do this asap. If you read the thread there's a comment in here that says I have a 5 year plan

 

[hseII]

You guys ever hear of a guy called brush ape on some of the other forums? Kinda looking familiar,,,?

The Ape is very Familiar in the ways of a Troll.

You’ve made a good Point.


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[hseII]

You pay 3k for liability insurance?

I pay 50 bucks a month. Can show you proof if you'd like.

You are talking about buying all this equipment. That's not necessary starting out. I'm starting little by little. I'm not trying to do this asap. If you read the thread there's a comment in here that says I have a 5 year plan

1. $50/ a month covers what exactly?

Weedeating?
Trimming Hedges?
Spreading Mulch around Mrs. Jones’ petunias?

The minute you are honest with your Insurance Provider & tell them you are doing/ scratch that, trying to perform legitimate tree work, all the flags are going to go up & so is your Premiums.

That was my cost for the 1st 3 years: A Zero Claims Run for 3 years provided a substantially lower Premium, but is certainly not $600/ year.

That sounds like push-mower insurance.

Does this $50/ month cover your bicycle too?

It’s certainly not a $1M liability Policy covering Tree Removals & Tree Pruning.

2. So you’re planning on hauling logs & chips using the Ferry Log Father’s gear?

I’ve tried that too, & there is no future to that.

Free Logs- come get, & I still had issues getting someone to drive their truck to my job so I can use my loader to load their logs.

Other People’s Jobs will come before your jobs: that’s life.

Stop drinking the Bong Water & chewing on the Grape Crayons & go work for someone until you can swing enough equipment & have enough knowledge to pay your taxes directly.



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[Jehinten]

1. $50/ a month covers what exactly?

Weedeating?
Trimming Hedges?
Spreading Mulch around Mrs. Jones’ petunias?

The minute you are honest with your Insurance Provider & tell them you are doing/ scratch that, trying to perform legitimate tree work, all the flags are going to go up & so is your Premiums.

That was my cost for the 1st 3 years: A Zero Claims Run for 3 years provided a substantially lower Premium, but is certainly not $600/ year.

That sounds like push-mower insurance.

Does this $50/ month cover your bicycle too?

It’s certainly not a $1M liability Policy covering Tree Removals & Tree Pruning.

2. So you’re planning on hauling logs & chips using the Ferry Log Father’s gear?

I’ve tried that too, & there is no future to that.

Free Logs- come get, & I still had issues getting someone to drive their truck to my job so I can use my loader to load their logs.

Other People’s Jobs will come before your jobs: that’s life.

Stop drinking the Bong Water & chewing on the Grape Crayons & go work for someone until you can swing enough equipment & have enough knowledge to pay your taxes directly.



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Depending on the company choosen for insurance your cost is going to change, my general liability coverage is closer to what @Jorgon1022 is saying than $3,000. Its quite surprising to me that it costs more for vehicle insurance on my bucket truck than my general liability. Just for clarification I carry 1 million dollar coverage, which is much higher than the required minimum in my area. I have climbed and trimmed trees and removed storm damage at my insurance agents home, so he's well aware of the work that I am doing under that policy.

As for everything else in your post I agree with, I went the route of giving away wood at jobsites, sometimes it worked and other times they'd get a full load while wood was still sitting there and I'd have to expect them to come back after I had gone to get it. Or they'd be so put off from the size of it, that they didn't want it once they got to the job.