How to be an Excellent Climber---from the Groundie

[Drewtree]

Respect your groundmen and their time. Don't ask for a pole saw 10 times when you can get a strap and keep it on your belt.

I will never climb about a canopy with a pole saw on my belt, and if I have to ask for something more than twice then they're not doing their job.

In all seriousness though. From a groundsman perspective, a good climber should communicate clearly, and effectively without having to yell or curse or berate. A good climber understands he's a part of a team, and without a good ground crew he's up shit creek without a paddle. There is no place for ego on my crews.

 

[JeffGu]

...a good climber should communicate clearly, and effectively without having to yell or curse or berate.

Well said. Although this is true in any work environment, it becomes even more important in a dangerous one. The morale of the entire team should be upbeat and positive if you want to get the most out of the crew. A pissed off, downbeat crew working in a hostile environment is not a recipe for "getting serious work done"... it's a recipe for big mistakes. Also, who wants to work for a dickhead? If you can't keep a crew together, either they don't like the work or they don't like the work environment. Nothing you can do about the first one, but plenty you can do about the second one.

 

[treehumper]

Well said. Although this is true in any work environment, it becomes even more important in a dangerous one. The morale of the entire team should be upbeat and positive if you want to get the most out of the crew. A pissed off, downbeat crew working in a hostile environment is not a recipe for "getting serious work done"... it's a recipe for big mistakes. Also, who wants to work for a dickhead? If you can't keep a crew together, either they don't like the work or they don't like the work environment. Nothing you can do about the first one, but plenty you can do about the second one.

Well said.
Look at any professional sports team, the worst player is miles above any amateur so, what's the difference on any given game day that allows one team to win over another? It's the mental game and cohesiveness of the team, not the level of talent. One star player doesn't make a great team and especially if they don't motivate the rest of the team to perform better.

 

[BigJon]

Time to hear from the others.

Sean chumed the waters:

I nominate you to start the Groundie's/ Owner's Guide to an Excellent Climber.
I'll get you started.
#1 Groundies can't read a climber's mind.
#2 Remember, brush is heavy; wood is heavy. Climber's get to use gravity to their advantage oftentimes, whereas Groundies more often have to work against it.
#3 ...you're up!

Don't drop things on me

Next...

I had a groundie who could read my mind, obedient, funny,skilled on the lowering line, passion to want to climb, smile like a jac o lattern....
Miss you Pat Epps

 

[Drewtree]

A good groundie should be able to read your mind, and a good climber shouldn't expect him to. I had one of those groundies too, I'd turn off my saw, look down at him.. and start my sentence "I need that..." and he would cut me off and yell "Slings and biners are on the line!" he'd shout back. Always paying attention to what I was doing and studying my work to know what I needed and when before I even asked for it, I never expected him to know what I needed though.. so I'd yell down and ask anyway only to see him already in the toolbox getting it out.

 

[JTSpear]

I had a groundie I would tell to let it run a little and hold it dead to let it stop swinging above the target. Instead he would run it and drop at the moment it was swinging away from the target and it would land well away from any target (when he could). Beautiful! I think being a really good groundie is harder than being a really good climber.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

I will never climb about a canopy with a pole saw on my belt, and if I have to ask for something more than twice then they're not doing their job.

In all seriousness though. From a groundsman perspective, a good climber should communicate clearly, and effectively without having to yell or curse or berate. A good climber understands he's a part of a team, and without a good ground crew he's up shit creek without a paddle. There is no place for ego on my crews.

Drew, i have worked with plenty of climbers that are world class that would never leave the ground to do a canopy clean without a polesaw. Your groundie has way more to do that tie your polesaw on and look for your every desire. It is pretty narcissistic to think that a groundsman doesn't have something better to do imo.

 

[Drewtree]

Hey, if you want to climb around a spreading dense canopy with a pole saw go ahead. I'll be up there saving time by asking for it only when I need it. Also forgive me if expecting someone to do their job correctly is narcissistic. Groundsmen job description is supporting and assisting climber as well as managing ground operations. Part of that is tying on shit that I don't feel is necessary to climb with. If I climbed with all the shit I need to do a complicated removal just to save my grounds man two seconds of rope tying I would be a fool, and an inefficient one at that.

Drew, i have worked with plenty of climbers that are world class that would never leave the ground to do a canopy clean without a polesaw. Your groundie has way more to do that tie your polesaw on and look for your every desire. It is pretty narcissistic to think that a groundsman doesn't have something better to do imo.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

Your comment tells me about the quality of your work and your skill level. we use pole saws for a lot more than just cutting a branch, lol. a ground hand has a job to do and so does a climber. if the groundie has time to screw around tying and untying a flipping polesaw on your line instead of moving brush then you are no where near as good as you think you are and what freaking climber worth his wage wants to pull up a pole every ten minutes because he can't figure out how to hang a polesaw in the tree and not leave it trying to play comp climber in a production tree

To further this thought, you would get ran off a line crew for whining about having to lug around your pole pruner. With a 12' polesaw i can prune a 24' sphere of of the tree per set up on small dead. Your ass can't move that fast, no one can and that is why people carry them. Hell the wicked company, jameson, silky, marvin are making a fortune off selling retractable poles so they are less cumbersome. I use mine to set traverse lines set and retrieve rigging lines, catch rigging line that are swinging loads way out off a house. Imo, you need to read the general fundamentals of tree work by GF Berenek and if you own it then you need to reread it.

 

[Drewtree]

You can make sweeping ignorant judgements all you want, name call and whatever else makes you feel like a big man. You don't know me so i won't take it personally. Obviously your own insecurities are what made you rant this hard about me suggesting that a Groundsman should tie on whatever is asked of him. Especially if it's his boss asking for it. Talk about what he should have brought up after the job is done.

 

[Drewtree]

Also I bet your line clearance pruning cuts look
like a beaver hacked them off if you are pruning from one position for that big of a radius, but I guess if you're doing line clearance it's not for appearance so it doesn't matter, right? ;-)

 

[Drewtree]

All of those personal attacks on me just because I wont climb with a pole saw, wow man. /eyeroll

 

[Steve Connally]

My silky is a life saver. If I didn't have it I'd loose production time. It allows me to do trees faster and with less effort leading to more trees per day. I get it sent to me when I'm aloft then usually carry it throughout the climb. It's pretty lite and compact. Rite tool for the rite job. Days of the 12 or 16 footers dangling around are pretty much long gone. The only negative is in order to save weight the blades are much more flimsy and break easier.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

you sound like an unskilled butt hurt narcissist to me. my cuts are golden. and made from all angles because i know how to use the right tools for the job

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

"I will never climb about a canopy with a pole saw on my belt, and if I have to ask for something more than twice then they're not doing their job." Drewtree

If i was your groundie and i had to tie your dang polesaw on more than once for a canopy clean i wouldn't send it back to you and tie you dang rope to the bottom of the tree. lazy entitled narcissistic climbers piss me off.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

Ground work is harder than climbing work and it requires skill and thought to keep the ground running as smooth as possible so keep your request to a minimum and let the ground pounder do their job as efficiently as possible. always cut to fill the hole if possible. repetitious rigging of small pieces eats job time and ground man hours. if working with one dude or seven dudes you have to work to his/their skill capabilities. If they can handle some heat, then boil the water. If they need a baby bath, then get in there and get your hands dirty.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

i personally when running the ground will set spider legs on the line when needed, install my own pull lines, hang extra rigging lines and rig the limb for the climber, install extra climbing lines when needed, cut and drag brush, run the skidder, grapple brush, grind stumps, go to the dump, manage pedestrians, manage the HO, manage the ground crew, manage the pusher. If your groundie is doing all those things he doesn't have time to be your nursemaid. If she isn't doing those things train her how to do them and explain your expectations of the job at hand.

 

[Crazy_Jimmy]

I Always thought ground work was easier then climbing but sometimes a lot more boring .Jeffs right there is potentially for a lot of those responsibilities , but we usually do a lot of that stuff because all of us climb as well . I was a ground man as kid and all the way up until my early 20s , then I started climbing full time. I will work the ground occasionally when I want a break from climbing or when Its time to clean up. We do a ton of pruning so I always want everyone on my crew to be able to climb , just because a lot of jobs dont have much debris when we prune, plus I like my everyone to be able to perform a rescue as well

 

[Drewtree]

"I will never climb about a canopy with a pole saw on my belt, and if I have to ask for something more than twice then they're not doing their job." Drewtree

If i was your groundie and i had to tie your dang polesaw on more than once for a canopy clean i wouldn't send it back to you and tie you dang rope to the bottom of the tree. lazy entitled narcissistic climbers piss me off.

You're boring, it's pretty pathetic of you to call
me names because I have a different style than you. You're now saying you would sabotage your climber if he asked for something he needed, what kind of shit is that? Entitled? Lazy? Okay Mr.legendary production climber who generates so much material he would never dream of asking his crew to assist
him because they spend every second of the day dragging brush in an infinitely complicated ballet of ground management that if interrupted for one second could cause the entire operation to collapse.

If having a different team dynamic and a style
unique from yours makes you feel like calling me a lazy entitled narcissist then so be it. Everyone is entitled to make judgements, no matter how ignorant.

Won't be checking back on this thread either so go ahead and have whatever last word makes you feel good inside. I'm on this forum for discussion and learning from other people's unique styles, not being insulted by people like yourself.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

Its not just about the debris. all facets of ground pounding come before your laziness: Greasing equipment, sharpening saws, setting up the next tree or tie in point, polesaw work, rake up for the tree you just cleaned out, ect ect ect. Being that you are to short sighted to see the need for those things and that constantly bumming off the groundies slows a job down and that having your pole on you makes a difference. I used to think i could out run a polesaw. it just can't happen. i learned to climb better and a little slower and get way more accomplished. I do a lot of fucking work with my polesaw. every climber i train hates them for the first month or so and they always find excuses to send them down and gripe constantly about them until i take their polesaw away for a week, then they see how the benefits of a polesaw out weighs the inconvenience managing its positioning in the tree. planning your routs and seeing if you are going to need it for that one top or that side of the tree or if you can put your scabbard on it and hang it on a loop runner.