How does current science view structural pruning?
- Thread starter davepell
- Start date
jmcscrap
Participating member
- Location
- Woodbury, MN
Check out Ed Gillmans research he has done. I think if you keep the pruning to within reason as in - not half the tree, taking out limbs that are structurally weak can only benefit the tree in the long run. Think if the branch were to fail and tear the bark down the side of the tree versus a clean cut just outside the branch collar. I understand that any branch could potentially fail, but if you see defects that raise the chance, take it out. I would however avoid very large cuts if there were other alternatives - reducing weight off the ends, cabling, bracing etc... Interested to hear others opinions on this as well.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
When I do pruning, its rarely for the tree. Its for the needs of the customers, other plants, safety, etc..
So much of the negatives about pruning healthy limbs stuff seems pretty inconsequential or irrelevant.
Take a group of 10 Douglas fir in a big yard for example. If they all grow together, many lower limbs will die and fall of naturally anyway. So I often decided to remove a few at a time before they die, providing small wounds, since the cuts will be smaller now. In that case, the trees are probably going to be structurally stronger in the future. But it still may be a minor difference.
My approach tends to boil-down to where can I make a smaller cut today, to avoid a bigger cut tomorrow.
The term "leaders" is more literal than some people realize.
I treat trees like a small corporation. Just like with a real corporation, leaders (managers) lead the company in a direction. Whether its growth and expansion, shifing to a new region, etc.. In a corporation, inferior leaders may not have replacements yet, and may need to be phased out.
Preservation of trees works very well by determining what direction the tree needs to grow, and whether present leader can do that function. If not, leaders going the wrong way need to be phased out, and secondary branches can be chosen to transform into new leader over time. Thats about the only way to lead the movement of the canopy, rather than just sit back and react to whatever developed 30 years later when its too late.
So much of the negatives about pruning healthy limbs stuff seems pretty inconsequential or irrelevant.
Take a group of 10 Douglas fir in a big yard for example. If they all grow together, many lower limbs will die and fall of naturally anyway. So I often decided to remove a few at a time before they die, providing small wounds, since the cuts will be smaller now. In that case, the trees are probably going to be structurally stronger in the future. But it still may be a minor difference.
My approach tends to boil-down to where can I make a smaller cut today, to avoid a bigger cut tomorrow.
The term "leaders" is more literal than some people realize.
I treat trees like a small corporation. Just like with a real corporation, leaders (managers) lead the company in a direction. Whether its growth and expansion, shifing to a new region, etc.. In a corporation, inferior leaders may not have replacements yet, and may need to be phased out.
Preservation of trees works very well by determining what direction the tree needs to grow, and whether present leader can do that function. If not, leaders going the wrong way need to be phased out, and secondary branches can be chosen to transform into new leader over time. Thats about the only way to lead the movement of the canopy, rather than just sit back and react to whatever developed 30 years later when its too late.
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI
davepell,
what articles are you referring to?
what articles are you referring to?
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
davepell,
what articles are you referring to?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not look like articles was referred too. Might even be referring to blog or forum posts. The idea has been posted about on forums several times.
davepell,
what articles are you referring to?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not look like articles was referred too. Might even be referring to blog or forum posts. The idea has been posted about on forums several times.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
davepell,
what articles are you referring to?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not look like articles was referred too. Might even be referring to blog or forum posts.
[/ QUOTE ] yea some internet bs taken waay too seriously.
attached is one view
[ QUOTE ]
davepell,
what articles are you referring to?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not look like articles was referred too. Might even be referring to blog or forum posts.
[/ QUOTE ] yea some internet bs taken waay too seriously.
attached is one view
Dave: are you refering to articles like this one written by the I.S.A.?
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/pruning_mature.aspx
Joe
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/pruning_mature.aspx
Joe
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Dave: are you refering to articles like this one written by the I.S.A.?
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/pruning_mature.aspx
Joe
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing that stands out in that ISA article is the introduction. I see a lot of trees in the forest where defects resulted in worse damage than had some corrective pruning been done (if such were feasible, which it's really not).
Dave: are you refering to articles like this one written by the I.S.A.?
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/pruning_mature.aspx
Joe
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing that stands out in that ISA article is the introduction. I see a lot of trees in the forest where defects resulted in worse damage than had some corrective pruning been done (if such were feasible, which it's really not).
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
If you wish to go right to the source Ed's page with the University of Florida is http://hort.ufl.edu/woody/
We have spent a lot of time learning from Ed in the last 5 years and have several yearly projects, trying to implement his teachings and seeing how the trees react. So far we have not killed any of the trees yet (one got verticilium bad and passed). And they still look good.
We have spent a lot of time learning from Ed in the last 5 years and have several yearly projects, trying to implement his teachings and seeing how the trees react. So far we have not killed any of the trees yet (one got verticilium bad and passed). And they still look good.
Thanks for the replies.
I've read Ed Gilman's powerpoints, read most arboriculture texts published in the last decade, attended my share of seminars, skim the industry journals and magazines, and check out the treebuzz discussions regularly.
I feel good in saying that structural pruning should be done early in a tree's development. When there is a need to prune, I shoot for the 10% or less rule. I only deadwood when it's needed for safety or requested for aesthetics.
My conerns are along the lines of; at what point does structural pruning do more harm than good? How large a girdling root is too big to cut? If large limbs are removed from angiosperms, what's the best time to prune (avoid suckering)?
Thanks again.
Dave
I've read Ed Gilman's powerpoints, read most arboriculture texts published in the last decade, attended my share of seminars, skim the industry journals and magazines, and check out the treebuzz discussions regularly.
I feel good in saying that structural pruning should be done early in a tree's development. When there is a need to prune, I shoot for the 10% or less rule. I only deadwood when it's needed for safety or requested for aesthetics.
My conerns are along the lines of; at what point does structural pruning do more harm than good? How large a girdling root is too big to cut? If large limbs are removed from angiosperms, what's the best time to prune (avoid suckering)?
Thanks again.
Dave
Experience and results from applying the current philosophies regarding pruning of mature trees seems to be what you're after. Keeping an eye on what you've done to see if what you've learned gives the results of what you've applied in the field will be the only way you know what you've learned is correct, or most beneficial for mature trees. We all want this information.
Joe
Joe
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
I agree with Joe; Experience is the best Teacher.
But some responses:
"skim the industry journals and magazines"
Maybe a little in-depth skimming would benefit.
"When there is a need to prune, I shoot for the 10% or less rule."
That guideline is only for very old or weakened trees. i took about 85% off an apple tree last month. It needed it.
"I only deadwood when it's needed for safety or requested for aesthetics."
What about health? check that thread again.
"My concerns are along the lines of; at what point does structural pruning do more harm than good?"
When too much is taken off at a time. Sprouting patterns can indicate this.
" How large a girdling root is too big to cut?"
It depends. The 4" elm sgr that was cut and pictured in the TCI article closed in 3 years. If you're in the area stop by--it's right next to the stable. 8" is probably the largest I've cut, on a yoshino cherry.
"If large limbs are removed from angiosperms, what's the best time to prune
No time is good for any kind of tree. Better to reduce, and clear enough above to give it light to live.
"(avoid suckering)?"
Sprouting around individual branch wounds can be a very good thing, as it nourishes callus growth.
Remember--In depth!
But some responses:
"skim the industry journals and magazines"
Maybe a little in-depth skimming would benefit.
"When there is a need to prune, I shoot for the 10% or less rule."
That guideline is only for very old or weakened trees. i took about 85% off an apple tree last month. It needed it.
"I only deadwood when it's needed for safety or requested for aesthetics."
What about health? check that thread again.
"My concerns are along the lines of; at what point does structural pruning do more harm than good?"
When too much is taken off at a time. Sprouting patterns can indicate this.
" How large a girdling root is too big to cut?"
It depends. The 4" elm sgr that was cut and pictured in the TCI article closed in 3 years. If you're in the area stop by--it's right next to the stable. 8" is probably the largest I've cut, on a yoshino cherry.
"If large limbs are removed from angiosperms, what's the best time to prune
No time is good for any kind of tree. Better to reduce, and clear enough above to give it light to live.
"(avoid suckering)?"
Sprouting around individual branch wounds can be a very good thing, as it nourishes callus growth.
Remember--In depth!
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