Daniel
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The kind that has you knowing the pledge of allegiance by heart
How brainwashed are you?
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Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I remember the night well... my sister and I waited at the top of the steps and busted my parents bringing out the presents...
I never told my son that Santa Claus doesn't exist... Just that daddy doesn't believe in Santa Claus...
Pretty good analogy too.
At some point you have to grow up and realize that reindeer can't fly, and a fat man can't fit through the chimney... and maybe you'll live long enough to grow up to the fact that humans aren't even close to the technology needed to walk on the moon.
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moss
Been here much more than a while
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- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
That's just patriotic ritual, young kids have no idea what it really means. Every culture/religion has rote words like that kids learn to recite, it's nothing in the big scheme of things. Certainly people talk about their "allegiance to the flag". That's something different, has to do with what they were raised to believe by their parents and surrounding community. Reciting it in elementary school does nothing to turn a child into a rabid nationalist, that's a whole 'nother formula.
-AJ
moss
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I did not realize you are an expert in space travel technology. When we were kids we'd listen to my dad's surplus U.S. Army tank shortwave radio. It was rumored in the early 60's that a Russian cosmonaut was stranded in orbit. We thought that if we scanned through enough of the shortwave bands we'd either hear his voice calling for help or his Morse Code SOS signals. We found some very interesting stuff but could not find the lost cosmonaut. The Russians were very good at putting people into space and the U.S. picked up on it and got very good at it. If you follow the technology trail from the early jet and then rocket flights on the edge of the Earth's atmosphere the building blocks are clear to the point where they figured it out enough to make the big flights to our near orbiting hunk of rock and keeps humans alive doing so. An amazing accomplishment.
I have no idea why people are so focused on "the moon landing was faked", it's really irrelevant at this point, much bigger fish to fry. It's like the over complicated 911 conspiracy schemes so many players involved to pull off the massive fake yet none of the participants has squealed. It's strange, Epstein couldn't pull it off (keep his victims quiet) and yet all of NASA has been quieted on the faked moon landing. There's no discussion there for me.
Good luck fighting off the brainwashed zombies Daniel!
-AJ
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Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
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- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
You're at the top of the list... though you seem nice enough.. I only hope you live long enough to realize you've been scammed.... how long will it take.. let's say for example if we don't get back by 2040? would that be long enough to convince you that it just can't be done?
Artemis II is supposed to launch in 2026 and be a manned mission to ORBIT the moon.... I'll bet you $1,000 it doesn't happen in 2026... I pay you within a week of the mission if it happens in 2026. You pay me by Jan 15 2027 if it doesn't...
It's 1,000x farther to the moon than to the average orbit man has been since the alleged moon landings, L.E.O. ... you gotta cross the van allen radiation belt... land on the moon.. then take off from the moon and dock with an orbting ship going somewhere about 2,000 mph, and then come 1000x LEO back...
Do you want to know how they did it in 1969? SORRY.. they lost all the plans and all the original footage...
And somehow Elon hasn't figured it out either.. he says it would take 8 lannches to refuel enough to get to the moon..
Elon Musk Says It Could Take Eight Starship Launches to Fuel Up a Single Moon Trip
That's a lot of launches.
futurism.com
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
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- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Perfect... having children stand, face the flag, hold their hand over their heart, and pledge alligiance to the flag EVERY DAY AT SCHOOL, isn't brainwashing... it's NOTHING?????
Your proposition is a perfect illustration of how brainswashed people never realize that they have been brainwashed...
I propose that anyone who can recite the pledge of alligiance by heart HAS BEEN brainwashed....
and
And you're STILL brainwashed if you still believe that having school children recite the pledge of alligiance is NOT brainwashing.
You're deep in the matrix bro....
moss
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Children are much smarter than that. They know BS when they see it. Give them some credit.
moss
Been here much more than a while
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Always follow the money upstream to see who's doing what. Major anti-vaccine financial supporter Timothy Mellon just gave Trump $130 million to help keep the U.S. military paid during the shutdown. He's been backing Robert F. Kennedy Jr's political and anti-vaxx endeavors:
"Mr. Mellon, a wealthy banking heir and railroad magnate, is a longtime backer of Mr. Trump and gave tens of millions of dollars to groups supporting the president’s campaign. Last year, he made a $50 million donation to a super PAC supporting Mr. Trump, which was one of the largest single contributions ever disclosed.
A grandson of former Treasury Secretary Andrew W. Mellon, Mr. Mellon was not a prominent Republican donor until Mr. Trump was elected. But in recent years, he has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into supporting Mr. Trump and the Republican Party.
Mr. Mellon, who lives primarily in Wyoming, keeps a low profile despite his prolific political spending. He is also a significant supporter of Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who also ran for president last year. Mr. Mellon donated millions to Mr. Kennedy’s presidential campaign and has also given money to his anti-vaccine group, Children’s Health Defense."
Bear in mind that Mellon is a major player in rail freight transport, bringing coal back and rolling back mining regulations improves his bottom line quite a bit. It's weirdly ironic that big banking/fossil fuel money is backing anti-vaxx efforts.
Mr. Mellon's financial backing for his favorite "causes" is on the public record.
@Daniel if you aren't getting any financial support from Mellon you should definitely give him a ring, might pan out nicely for you.
-AJ
"Mr. Mellon, a wealthy banking heir and railroad magnate, is a longtime backer of Mr. Trump and gave tens of millions of dollars to groups supporting the president’s campaign. Last year, he made a $50 million donation to a super PAC supporting Mr. Trump, which was one of the largest single contributions ever disclosed.
A grandson of former Treasury Secretary Andrew W. Mellon, Mr. Mellon was not a prominent Republican donor until Mr. Trump was elected. But in recent years, he has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into supporting Mr. Trump and the Republican Party.
Mr. Mellon, who lives primarily in Wyoming, keeps a low profile despite his prolific political spending. He is also a significant supporter of Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who also ran for president last year. Mr. Mellon donated millions to Mr. Kennedy’s presidential campaign and has also given money to his anti-vaccine group, Children’s Health Defense."
Bear in mind that Mellon is a major player in rail freight transport, bringing coal back and rolling back mining regulations improves his bottom line quite a bit. It's weirdly ironic that big banking/fossil fuel money is backing anti-vaxx efforts.
Mr. Mellon's financial backing for his favorite "causes" is on the public record.
@Daniel if you aren't getting any financial support from Mellon you should definitely give him a ring, might pan out nicely for you.
-AJ
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moss
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Apparently Mellon's donation for the military payroll is in violation of the "Anti-deficiency Act" which requires that Congress approve all U.S. government spending including voluntary services and donations. Which is why the military can't technically be paid during a shutdown, Congress would have to return to session and approve reactivating the military payroll.
I'm mentioning this only as an example of governmental incompetence, re: why NASA is going to take a very long time to conclude the Artemis lunar project. Most of NASA is not working during the shutdown either, supposedly critical Artemis project staff are working but... it takes a village to get to the moon, not skeleton staff.
The Apollo mission had the full support of the U.S. government and the American people. Expertise, steady financial backing, and support from the people of your country have a lot to do with why such a challenging project was ultimately successful.
-AJ
I'm mentioning this only as an example of governmental incompetence, re: why NASA is going to take a very long time to conclude the Artemis lunar project. Most of NASA is not working during the shutdown either, supposedly critical Artemis project staff are working but... it takes a village to get to the moon, not skeleton staff.
The Apollo mission had the full support of the U.S. government and the American people. Expertise, steady financial backing, and support from the people of your country have a lot to do with why such a challenging project was ultimately successful.
-AJ
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Bendroctanus
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AJ, either you post these from a desk top, or your thumbs are the most formidable this side of the Mississippi. And if you clacking these out on a keyboard, tour fingers are the most formidable this side of the Mississippi.
Stumpsprouts
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There’s a lot of pressure to conform though, especially for this example. I was penalized at first when I stopped standing for the pledge of allegiance during the Iraq war at the beginning of school. One (substitute) teacher made me write an essay about it. I was 13. You can call me unpatriotic- I was disillusioned- I saw through the bullshit war narratives. Then I had to sit through the morning TV in home room, which had ads for the army and world news with who knows what kind of bias, tuning it all out. That was required watching, every morning. How lovely it would have been if they put on some Bob Ross instead..
As I’ve grown I’ve come to appreciate this country in a new way, and ultimately I’m grateful for the freedoms I get to enjoy, including the freedom to openly criticize some of the terrible things that are done by our government and military.
And yeah, there were other kids who didn’t feel the liberty bell ringing deep in their rib cage but they didn’t want any attention drawn to them. The pressure to conform is high. And whatever family bias a kid is raised in, we don’t start shaking any of that until many years later, usually. So kids are smart, but also heavily pressured to conform.
moss
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Daniel inspires me to think things through a little deeper ;-)
Laptop for longer stretches of writing, thx!
-AJ
data farm 26
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that's crazy, where was the school?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
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You're my new hero... that's pretty young to be seeing through the war mongers' propaganda
I stopped standing for the star spangled banner way before Capernick... this country is evil... war is evil... that song celebrates both. And I'm not standing for that crap...
Get some dirty looks... the dirtier the better as far as I'm concerned... I couldn't care less what they think. Funny thing is... if you really are patriotic and support the principles of freedom that the the old republic was founded upon, then you HAVE TO support my act of defiance and objections, as free speech. If you really understood the principle, you would more than support it. You would celebrate it!!!
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moss
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Oh Jeeze, this is in the realm of personal power tripping on the part of the substitute teacher. Rough experience! Built character the hard way, sorry about that!
When I first started drawing military equipment, jets, tanks, war scenarios with my crayons I had no concept of painful injury and death. I knew I didn't like scraping my knees on a sidewalk tumble or falling out of a tree but war and all its technology seemed so exciting. No concept of miserable outcomes whatsoever, dead people were drawn with X's for eyes and lots of red crayon.
Funny thing how careful my brothers and I were about rendering national markings on the rockets, jets and tanks we drew. In particular the swastika and the hammer and sickle depending on which war scenario was being depicted. The various U.S. Army and Air Force insignias were well researched from books and magazine photos and faithfully drawn.
This is the relative innocence of childhood. By the time I was becoming a teen I knew something was terribly wrong with war. It was clear simply by reading the front page of any newspaper or listening to the news on the radio that unhinged use of warfare was crushing innocent humans around the world. And the country I'd so frequently pledged allegiance to without really knowing what I was saying was a major player in all this. This is what I mean by saying "Give the kids some credit for detecting BS".
At some point in my misspent young adulthood I'd picked up a '63 Ford Fairlane with blown out leaf springs, on the steering column manual shift for $5. It had well weathered OEM blue paint, a perfect surface to draw on with welder's chalk. At some point a friend and I decided to decorate the car. First we drew a fake white/textured landau roof (popular on 70's cars) then chalk flames coming out behind the front wheels. Next... Soviet bloc MIG fighter jet insignias on one side, U.S. Air Force jet insignias on the other. I took it out for a Sunday spin on Memorial Drive across the Charles River from downtown Boston. I was immediately pulled over by a pair of state troopers. They were pissed! All they cared about was the large hammer and sickle on one side. They inspected the Fairlane with a fine-toothed comb, turn signals, tires, muffler, wiper function, everything. My feet remained firmly planted on a piece of sheet metal covering up a gaping hole in the floor board under the pedals. They never noticed. I was allowed to continue on my way nothing written up but, "Wash that shiite off your car!".
Point is besides being a fun story... we're all heavily trained in how important symbols are, people will die for them. This is not unique to "brainwashing" in the U.S., humans have been engaged in transferring religious and political ideas to symbolic representations (the flag, the cross) for a very long time. I guess this is why I'm maintaining that more critical thought and finer distinctions are needed to discuss "How brainwashed are you?"
-AJ
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moss
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@Daniel, dude, you want to lead an "oppositional writing" workshop with me? This is awesome ;-)
-AJ
-AJ
Stumpsprouts
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Suburban Massachusetts public school system.
moss
Been here much more than a while
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- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Aha, yep same here. I have enough sour taste in my mouth from growing up in suburbs outside of Boston, I’ve declined high school reunion invites fah eva. Small minded maybe on my part but no interest in revisiting anything from growing up in a white picket fence entitled New England town loaded with crazy toxic BS covered up with propriety. Same old same old.
-AJ
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
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- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound. It's like the kid with jelly all over his face denying he was the one that ate the jelly... now its the guy who spent countless hours of his youth drawing military killing machines with his brothers that's denying he was brainwashed...
All the flag waiving at the parades... all the war movies... and the TV Shows: Hogan's Heroes... McHales Navy Rat Patrol, MASH, COMBAT... even Gomer Pile and I Deam of Jeanie...
It's not brainwashing... nothing of the sort...
Oh ya... it's the innocence of youth or maybe just NOTHING... Nothing to see here... we're not brainwashed...
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Stumpsprouts
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So I think the kind of fallacy of the whole thread is that if your position is that we are all brainwashed, and we have to question everything because everything we have been taught to believe is false, that position, in and of itself, could be seen as its own kind of brainwashing. Nothing is as it seems…! Actually some things are as they seem. Some things really did happen.
But no reason not to engage in fantasy and suspension of reality here and there, as well
As my mother always says, ‘don’t confuse me with the facts!’ Or the old adage, ‘don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story.’- Status
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