Hollow Silver Maple saved! Reduced and Ring Bark

Re: Hollow Silver Maple saved! Reduced and Ring Ba

Imagine as the camera enters a raggedy old racoon emerges.
Yikes!
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Re: Hollow Silver Maple saved! Reduced and Ring Ba

hahah that reminds me of one of jamin mayers old videos. they were cutting down a large spar and a squirrel was ridding it to the ground when all of a sudden!! it jumped off!! half before the spar crashed to the ground. haha
 
Stem tracing is alot like pruning when it comes to the movement and concentration of hormones.

Experience does have a role in this practice but it is more science based than anything. Basically there is Auxin and Gibberillin and how trees respond to the presence of each will determine if cells will differintiate or elongate.

My text is from 1994. And has been my scientific companion for many years. Biology Concepts and Connections, Campbell Mitchell Reece, Benjamin/Cummings Publishing Company. At the time this hormone interaction was not well understood.
Also recommended Arboriculture Integrated Management of Landscape Trees Shrub and Vines by Harris pg 395

Keep in mind, each branch or lead you are pruning, it is best to apply the same principles from What you should know about Training Young Trees.

The tracing in essence works by effecting apical dominance, redirecting hormones away from dormant/latent buds and tieing up energy.

Tracing is like tipping, heading back and thinning.
It is Another Tool in your pruning arsenal.

Bending woody plants is a past post by me where it is quite evident thru mans intervention plants can be stimulated to respond in many desirable ways.

My wish is to cultivate trees to be as large as possible, as quickly as possible and to be safe.

This thread is about sharing my passion for trees with you.

Thanks all for the contributions, helping to shed light on other aspects and sharing opinions
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The tracing in essence works by effecting apical dominance, redirecting hormones away from dormant/latent buds and tieing up energy.


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This thread is so interesting. Thanks for posting the video. At the risk of sounding ignorant, I'm going to ask some questions...

Can you elaborate on the above statement? How does it affect apical dominance? Where are the hormones redirected to?

Wouldn't epicormic shoots be the way that the tree is trying to produce as much carbohydrates as possible to feed itself as it struggles along in old age? So, couldn't they be beneficial?

Also, this is probably really ignorant too, but why try to keep the raccoons and squirrels out with the netting? Do they damage the tree? Since they've cohabitated for a looonngg time, it would seem they wouldn't be a worry...Maybe I'm missing something though.

None of these questions are challenges - I don't know enought to challenge on this thread...just tryin' to learn.
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I would just think their nests would hold moisture... Most of the time I've ever climbed up to one of those crotches with 3-4 stems originating from the one... You know the ones where squirrels love to build their nests. There is usually rot beneath it. That's my suspected reasoning, that and their little bastards.
 
I think you did a great job on that tree.. though I probably would have been very reluctant to do anything except a removal. It would depend on how much the clients wanted to save the tree, and how much risk they were willing to tolerate.

that much decay behind such big reaching limbs, especially on silver maple, is a bad situation.. Still I admire you for taking on the pruning... sometimes its just easier to bring in the crane and remove a tree like that.. So good for you for taking the "hard way out".. I'd definitely put that tree on a yearly reduction program and just keep reducing weight on those tips, even if that causes the tree's vigor to decline. The client must accept that as a better option than complete failure of some large part of the top.

I also like the scoring idea for reducing sprouting, and might try it on fruit trees or storm damage. That said, I DISAGREE whole-heartedly with the notion that sprouting somehow "takes energy" aaway from wound compartmentalization.

That is a completely bogus notion IMO (not so humble). The tree has a better idea of what its needs are than you do. If you are reducing sprouting for aesthetic reasons then fine, but don't delude yourdself into thinking you are doing that tree a favor.

THE TREE NEEDS THOSE SPROUTS.. to put on more new wood at the site of decay. Tom D. turned me onto that understanding many years ago. Its the same idea with lion's tailing. If you take all the green leafy growth away from the base of the stem, you'll reduce the limbs ability to add proper taper. The tree needs leaves growing near the sites where it wants to put on more new wood. Those sprouts provide the means to that end! It's surprising that such little mention of the idea was made here so far..
 
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The tracing in essence works by effecting apical dominance, redirecting hormones away from dormant/latent buds and tieing up energy.


[/ QUOTE ]

This thread is so interesting. Thanks for posting the video. At the risk of sounding ignorant, I'm going to ask some questions...

Can you elaborate on the above statement? How does it affect apical dominance? Where are the hormones redirected to?

Wouldn't epicormic shoots be the way that the tree is trying to produce as much carbohydrates as possible to feed itself as it struggles along in old age? So, couldn't they be beneficial?

Also, this is probably really ignorant too, but why try to keep the raccoons and squirrels out with the netting? Do they damage the tree? Since they've cohabitated for a looonngg time, it would seem they wouldn't be a worry...Maybe I'm missing something though.

None of these questions are challenges - I don't know enought to challenge on this thread...just tryin' to learn.
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All great questions and by being bringing these forward you are helping me reavaluate what I have learned and understand. I appreciate the communications.

Hormones are directed to callus tissue or further along the stem to interior or lower laterals.
Sprouts, beneficial, yes. Desirable maybe not.
The treee is strong and vigorous, in this situation we want to slow the growth not encourage.
What is desired is a dwarfing and balance between growth, vitality and safety.
Remember branches are able to photosynthesis. So a bare branch is still producing wood. \this is a trait of Faster growing species.

There is no shortage of large mamals, we like to encourage hopefully bats add birds. If you build it they will come, type of idea here.
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Very nice work--i advocate and do the same on topped trees. i agree with X about caution in claims and language, but his prognosis is fatalistic/unrealistic imo.

woundwood is tough stuff and in the absence of aggravating risk factors like cracks i think your work is very responsible.

Also recommended Arboriculture Integrated Management of Landscape Trees Shrub and Vines by Harris pg 395

um not in the 4th edition; could not find; is it in the same chapter as TGRs?

re scratching the branches--hort techniques transferred to arb--YES! i will experiment with this more as you suggest.

ok now to view sean';s vids.
 
Very very cool, I wasn't even familiar with the bark technique. God I love treebuzz!

BTW Guy, you were my fav speaker at otcc this year. learned alot and really appreciate your blunt and practical (field based) approach to you talk.
 
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Very nice work--i advocate and do the same on topped trees. i agree with X about caution in claims and language, but his prognosis is fatalistic/unrealistic imo.

woundwood is tough stuff and in the absence of aggravating risk factors like cracks i think your work is very responsible.

Also recommended Arboriculture Integrated Management of Landscape Trees Shrub and Vines by Harris pg 395

um not in the 4th edition; could not find; is it in the same chapter as TGRs?

re scratching the branches--hort techniques transferred to arb--YES! i will experiment with this more as you suggest.

ok now to view sean';s vids.

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Ok I have 2nd Edition. Hoefully things have not changed to much.
try the Pruning chapter and it should be in Training Young Trees and then in the chapter on Temporary Branches.

That is not my best resource for understanding and learning the role of hormones in plants. For that I have Plant Propogation Principles and Practices, Hartmann, Kester, Davies Prentice Hall Inc. Fith Edition is probabley out of a date aswell. But anyone wishing to learn more will gain alot of applicable knowledge from this text.

I worked weekends for an excellent Nursery man when I was in school. I helped with banding conifers, grafting, pollen collection and got to see some pretty cool things.

I would recommend it to any one to give some time to a Nurserymen for a great experience. Arboriculture is a world of incredible plants and ways to cultivate.
I have client who is contracting me to do some t-budding. Historic apple trees are being lost in the hammer so here is good way to secure future stock.

TGRs Qu'est-ce que c'est?
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What is desired is a dwarfing and balance between growth, vitality and safety.
Remember branches are able to photosynthesis. So a bare branch is still producing wood. \this is a trait of Faster growing species.



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Agreed.. best method to this end IMO would be reduction cuts on branch tips, with some thinning. I always think of leverage when reducing weight on structurally compromise trees.
Yes.. Every branch is producing wood.. the sprouts that grow near areas of decay are there to help the tree put on MORE wood in that area of weakness... I generally leave sprouts whenever possible, though it may be a good idea to limit sprouts in certain areas of that tree, just NOT near the areas of decay.

The vast majority of tree cutters (mostly untrained) have a knee-jerk reaction to remove sprouts.. That is a problem in this industry. So though the cutting technique you used to limit sprouts may have been appropriate to the situation (and a nifty trick when needed), it should be qualified so as not to further the myth that "sprouts are bad" or sprouts "take energy away from the tree". That type of thinking is not doing the trees any good!
 
Yes indeed. I to am tired of skinned out trees with nothing left to reduce to.

My biggest complaint. Stretching and stretching and over reaching and nothing to prune back to.

Try stem tracing and hopefully something sprouts so that you will eventually have something to reduce to.

It is a nifty little trick and am happy you all may throw it in to your bag of tricks.
 
Please consider the following.

Plant growth regulators move. Up and down crown to root and vice versa.
Wounding disrupts concentrations of hormones thus growth.
Wounding ties up energy. Healing
Grafting is a very old form of stem tracing and includes the addition of scion.
Macro wounding is pruning with material loss, micro wounding/stem tracing is less so.
Other ways to affect growth include banding(exclusion of light and addition of pressure to constrict conductive tissue), chemical, different forms of energy, magnetism,fracturing/mechanical, temperature, microbiota etc.

Hope this helps.
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[ QUOTE ]
Please consider the following.

Plant growth regulators move. Up and down crown to root and vice versa.
Wounding disrupts concentrations of hormones thus growth.
Wounding ties up energy. Healing
Grafting is a very old form of stem tracing and includes the addition of scion.
Macro wounding is pruning with material loss, micro wounding/stem tracing is less so.
Other ways to affect growth include banding(exclusion of light and addition of pressure to constrict conductive tissue), chemical, different forms of energy, magnetism,fracturing/mechanical, temperature, microbiota etc.

Hope this helps.
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I think this misinformation you are now dispensing on 2 threads is irresponsible and unprofessional. The only reference you offer to this wounding (you call it tracing, bark tracing is an old practice and involves scribing out discolored tissue...dead tissue) is no where to be found. I have a 1st edition copy of Harris' book I purchased in 1983 and on the page you say discusses this it instead mentions the lack of suckering if a proper cut is made outside of the branch collar (natural target pruning).

There are individuals that will take this foolishness as truth just because it...is on a forum and will begin to put lateral wounds on trees of their clients.

Shame on you.

If a tree is injured it is infected. This in no way relates to proper collar cuts.

Also, get with the program, and discontinue the long outdated use of the inappropriate term "healing" when refering to closure or sealing. Shigo would be at odds with you just in regards to that let alone the other issues.
 
I am sorry you feel this way!
I will not argue with you about this technique. We wil have to agree to disagree.
I will not be responsible for an arborist who uses this technique foolishy.
An injury is to effect, to affect is to introduce a pathogen, you may wish to analize this point more carefully.
I use the word healing because I believe trees are capable of healing, themselves and others. Living organism yes or no and to consider words like comparmentaization and sealing or closure is one step closer to the axe.
I am at great odds with Shigo as well as finding him truthful and inspiration.

Treevet, I greatly appreciate your insight and will give my post considerable thought.

thank you
 
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