Heat changing the way wood reacts. Caution.
- Thread starter theXman
- Start date
- Location
- Nationwide
Cory:
sarcasm
sarcasm
- Location
- Nationwide
No worries. I'm pretty deadpan, I guess.
goodaking
Participating member
This would be a good time to think about the circle of death, with all these tree popping!
yes, good point. I surely didn't put my lanyard on any of the limbs or spars I was cutting, i had other easy choices.
temps going back into the mid eighties by the end of this coming week, i think things will go back to normal with the wood.
Dead trees don't act this way? Why doesn't a dying or dead tree act this way? if this was all a moisture thing?
Maybe it's a simple hot wood thing? What if one side of the wood, facing south is so hot, it tries to expand and the other side isn't....... I don't have a good answer but interesting to think about.
Any smoke jumpers or forest fire fighters on here? That have experience dropping trees that were still hot from a fire? Any weird barber chairing on those trees?
Here is the cell ph pics I talked about, 8 to 10 inch leader I notched, bore cut and came in with the back cut. Leader was near vertical, little bit of lean toward the notch. Hinge wood, about 1" thick, definitely not over 1". Could not believe that the little bit of hinge wood was causing a crack as it went over.
the crack was not just in the bark, like i noticed it seems like in this picture, it ran to the other side, just closed up mostly and can't see it.
oh, i did notice after i blew away sawdust, the center of the tree was checked, 3 ways too. like cut sections of black locust do in the sun when they dry.
temps going back into the mid eighties by the end of this coming week, i think things will go back to normal with the wood.
Dead trees don't act this way? Why doesn't a dying or dead tree act this way? if this was all a moisture thing?
Maybe it's a simple hot wood thing? What if one side of the wood, facing south is so hot, it tries to expand and the other side isn't....... I don't have a good answer but interesting to think about.
Any smoke jumpers or forest fire fighters on here? That have experience dropping trees that were still hot from a fire? Any weird barber chairing on those trees?
Here is the cell ph pics I talked about, 8 to 10 inch leader I notched, bore cut and came in with the back cut. Leader was near vertical, little bit of lean toward the notch. Hinge wood, about 1" thick, definitely not over 1". Could not believe that the little bit of hinge wood was causing a crack as it went over.
the crack was not just in the bark, like i noticed it seems like in this picture, it ran to the other side, just closed up mostly and can't see it.
oh, i did notice after i blew away sawdust, the center of the tree was checked, 3 ways too. like cut sections of black locust do in the sun when they dry.
Attachments
[ QUOTE ]
I work for the biggest and oldest tree care company in the world and the biggest yard in Canada. One of our guys had his rigging point failed while taking out a 200lbs(approx.) limb. Minor damage to the house. Upon review it was found that the species of tree combined with the way trees are reacting to the heat caused the failure. Silver maple is brittle to begin with but this summer's heat is making everything worse.
Take a bit of extra caution and learn something new every day.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slim,
Thanks for telling the experience, interesting to see so many stories.
So, was this tree you talked about, a silver maple?
I personally think Silver Maples are normally very elastic and get a bad name due to weak V-crotches in most of the trees. Also, they send competing limbs out really far and thin. But the wood is not brittle. Many species could not send out limbs that far and that thin and not break. I hear that all the time, silver maples are brittle, our DNR says that. If someone did a stress test on equally size diameters and lengths of various species, you would find silver maples are not brittle. BUT! They are brittle I noticed in spring when juiced up with water, for some reason. I never really see this in other trees. Plus, if really cold, they get brittle at that time too. So, maybe they get brittle in high heat too....
I work for the biggest and oldest tree care company in the world and the biggest yard in Canada. One of our guys had his rigging point failed while taking out a 200lbs(approx.) limb. Minor damage to the house. Upon review it was found that the species of tree combined with the way trees are reacting to the heat caused the failure. Silver maple is brittle to begin with but this summer's heat is making everything worse.
Take a bit of extra caution and learn something new every day.
[/ QUOTE ]
Slim,
Thanks for telling the experience, interesting to see so many stories.
So, was this tree you talked about, a silver maple?
I personally think Silver Maples are normally very elastic and get a bad name due to weak V-crotches in most of the trees. Also, they send competing limbs out really far and thin. But the wood is not brittle. Many species could not send out limbs that far and that thin and not break. I hear that all the time, silver maples are brittle, our DNR says that. If someone did a stress test on equally size diameters and lengths of various species, you would find silver maples are not brittle. BUT! They are brittle I noticed in spring when juiced up with water, for some reason. I never really see this in other trees. Plus, if really cold, they get brittle at that time too. So, maybe they get brittle in high heat too....
[ QUOTE ]
That's interesting because I had a small red oak practically explode off the stump last week with light pressure on the pull line. It popped the second I started the back cut, still had 6" of hingewood. Temp was 106F.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had a wallnut come appart on Tuesday. Strait up vertical, 60 foot forest tree 24" dbh. Put a 30 degree humbolt in it to save as much lumber as possible. Stopped the back cut with 2inches of holding wood and stepped back to watch my handy work. As soon as the notch closed I had a surreal feeling something was wrong, only to realize that the log had just exploded. 10 foot barberchair, on a vertical log with no visible defect.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did a Red Oak on tues that was similar. The first limb a took 10" form over the house with two men pulling in the direction of the hinge popped like a bottle top with still 2-21/2" of hinge. It took out a railing but no big deal. The rest of the tree I was on gaurd, and watched a bunch of barber chair action. I didn't think to bore cut as i generally use it on the ground. Temps were only around ninety here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think these stories from experienced people say a lot about heat doing something to the trees.
Thank you all.
Stay safe in the heat guys and gals.
That's interesting because I had a small red oak practically explode off the stump last week with light pressure on the pull line. It popped the second I started the back cut, still had 6" of hingewood. Temp was 106F.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had a wallnut come appart on Tuesday. Strait up vertical, 60 foot forest tree 24" dbh. Put a 30 degree humbolt in it to save as much lumber as possible. Stopped the back cut with 2inches of holding wood and stepped back to watch my handy work. As soon as the notch closed I had a surreal feeling something was wrong, only to realize that the log had just exploded. 10 foot barberchair, on a vertical log with no visible defect.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did a Red Oak on tues that was similar. The first limb a took 10" form over the house with two men pulling in the direction of the hinge popped like a bottle top with still 2-21/2" of hinge. It took out a railing but no big deal. The rest of the tree I was on gaurd, and watched a bunch of barber chair action. I didn't think to bore cut as i generally use it on the ground. Temps were only around ninety here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think these stories from experienced people say a lot about heat doing something to the trees.
Thank you all.
Stay safe in the heat guys and gals.
- Location
- north bay ontario, Canada
Funny because we got a call last week about a honey locust branch failing and landed on a girls car, it was about 38c plus humidity, branch had very little rot on inside, and any climber would have tied into/ rigged off a branch 10 times smaller! its bad enough you have to worry about chafing in this heat, i never though it would be about random branch fail!
- Location
- north bay ontario, Canada
I would add a pic but dont know how
BigWood
Participating member
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
its bad enough you have to worry about chafing in this heat, i never though it would be about random branch fail!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not only am I an outspoken advocate, I'm a client!
http://shop.antimonkeybutt.com/bare-essentials-gift-pack/
its bad enough you have to worry about chafing in this heat, i never though it would be about random branch fail!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not only am I an outspoken advocate, I'm a client!
http://shop.antimonkeybutt.com/bare-essentials-gift-pack/
- Location
- north bay ontario, Canada
It is a must in the tree biz, but i must admit that is a first for me! haha
Bixler
Participating member
- Location
- Nevada City, CA
It seems like the California Black Oaks tend to fail during the hottest time of the summer. I've noticed large limbs will fail, or they'll just go over at the base. Usually ends up being a rotten pocket at the break or point of failure. Lots of ants or insects living about.
The Oaks seem to suck up all the last bits of water way out-to-the tips when they need it the most. This makes for strong wood with lots of tension and plenty of weight at the end.
Usually, anyone would be able to predict most failures if they just spent the time and looked. I figure the Oaks have been here for a long time, and for the most part can't tell I'm even in them.
Either way, I'm a firm believer in taking down a tree in a somewhat balanced matter. I could only image what it would be like if the tree decided to implode while I'm cutting' stuff out.
That's why the heat can sketch me out. So hot time of year I may exaggerate some of my strap cuts, or plunge cuts to make sure enough tension wood has been cut away, especially when it really matters!:shaking head:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The Oaks seem to suck up all the last bits of water way out-to-the tips when they need it the most. This makes for strong wood with lots of tension and plenty of weight at the end.
Usually, anyone would be able to predict most failures if they just spent the time and looked. I figure the Oaks have been here for a long time, and for the most part can't tell I'm even in them.
Either way, I'm a firm believer in taking down a tree in a somewhat balanced matter. I could only image what it would be like if the tree decided to implode while I'm cutting' stuff out.
That's why the heat can sketch me out. So hot time of year I may exaggerate some of my strap cuts, or plunge cuts to make sure enough tension wood has been cut away, especially when it really matters!:shaking head:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
- Location
- Foothills of NC
This is very interesting stuff here. I work for a utility and was talking with one of the lineman this morning. He was telling me that he had 4 tree issues this weekend. 3 were tops of healthy looking trees breaking out and falling on the lines. The other was a whole tree, oak, if I remember correctly that broke over at about waist or chest height.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Medeival times Lance heads for charging on horse back was made from Acer platanoides and was fired/heated treated.
On impact the head would shatter so as to create many wounds in battle or dissipate energy in competition?
No sure what it is but either way it changes the property/characteristics of wood. And potentially in certain species the changes may be more dramatic than others.
Most be paper out there somewhere?
On impact the head would shatter so as to create many wounds in battle or dissipate energy in competition?
No sure what it is but either way it changes the property/characteristics of wood. And potentially in certain species the changes may be more dramatic than others.
Most be paper out there somewhere?
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preservation#Heat_treatments
http://thermaltreatedwood.com/Worldwide/Germany.pdf
The latter is more technical and interesting.
http://thermaltreatedwood.com/Worldwide/Germany.pdf
The latter is more technical and interesting.
