Getting your paper.

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Companies who are playing the race and pay game, well karma is a mofo.

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Can you elaborate on this "race and pay game" that you speak of?
 
Alright, Great idea!
Now who's going to push it through to the ISA?
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This is exactly what this thread is about. There are four types of tree workers:
1)those who can do who have no certs
2)those who can do and have certs
3)those who can not do who have certs
4)those who can not do and have no certs

I think the frustation comes from the folks who can do the work and have the certs as an added bonus. This is generally reserved for business owners. As an employee there really is no need to be cert'ed up. Unless you work for the elite that value the ability and the education. They are out there. They just need to be found.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Companies who are playing the race and pay game, well karma is a mofo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on this "race and pay game" that you speak of?

[/ QUOTE ]
andelay andelay aahreebaah
So maybe he's just jealous that... most mexicans can work harder, faster for less? most blacks are safe, tough and can funky jive dance? most uh yea I'm gonna stop there.

How about this, pretend you are mexican, then slowly unveil your massive arbo creds when they matter most, which might never happen. Hey, I bet learning spanish would get you a job as a foreman, prior to a piece of paper proudly proclaiming proper "pro"ness. Yea I just read socks on fox to my kid.

Most peeps who bring up karma do it like this. "You'll get what you deserve my pretty."
Karma is not about revenge it's about vibrations and his vibe is some what slightly on the negative.
Peace love and all that hippy poo coming at ya'll.
 
[ QUOTE ]
As an employee there really is no need to be cert'ed up. Unless you work for the elite that value the ability and the education. They are out there. They just need to be found.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right on.

Cream of the crop:I have a customer (arbor dad) who's son is an all creded up paul smiths grad working for elite inner nyc arboricultural company, he's in like the 1%. He drives a organic tea spray rig around greater Manhattan squirting the magic gogo juice on the richy rich s' leafy green. Pays great, but for some reason it's not what he see's himself doing forever. Hmmmmmm?

He gave me a resume. Wish our market and me could afford him.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would love to see the ISA produce a nice radio commercial that explains why trees and hiring Certified Arborists is important. Several stations here will play a Public Service Announcement for free. ISA is a non-profit organization so this is something they can do. Make the ad available to all the chapters so it can be played locally in all markets across the country. Then I would feel that ISA is making an effort to reach the masses and make my credential more worthwhile.

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Stacy, someone is listening. dozens and dozens of PSAs and press releases here. http://www.treesaregood.org/pressrelease/press.aspx

Those goldarn moneygrubbers make em free for anyone to use--but just you wait until you get hooked! You'll be begging to join, and add another certification, and who knows, even...even...you just may feel the need to buy a book--and you might even read it!

Books are the best use of paper there ever was.
 
[ QUOTE ]


Books are the best use of paper there ever was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash is another good use for paper.
 
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[ QUOTE ]


Cream of the crop:I have a customer (arbor dad) who's son is an all creded up paul smiths grad working for elite inner nyc arboricultural company, he's in like the 1%. He drives a organic tea spray rig around greater Manhattan squirting the magic gogo juice on the richy rich s' leafy green. Pays great, but for some reason it's not what he see's himself doing forever. Hmmmmmm?



[/ QUOTE ]


Love your choice of words here, frash. I only wish the rich in NYC would do as much for the outside of their domains as the inside. It seems to be getting better.

And now back to the subject. Nothing beats a well read man (or women). ISA is putting sense and structure into an area where a lot of people are getting hurt and killed. Not to leave out TREES.
 
Thanks, I get it in, pretty good though. I am always a player when it comes to safety. The great thing about it. That I set up the safety zones and enforce law. While having fun. I enjoy this craft. I won't let it go for nothing. I am Ent first! Gettin the paper comes, Cause I do this for fun. For life and everything right.
 
It is what it is. But, folks like me never stop and always get better. I have to infect new safety programs, new scouting methods. I like how you think. Stay safe.
 
Relax! You are thinking way to much there. You got it twisted. You know when you see a climber. You don't even have to say nothing. You ask for help and he is in work mode from jump. Always being proactive, while being safe at the same time. I get it in, when I'm out there. After work, I go run for 14 miles and prepare for the next day. I'm a "Ent" all the way.
 
I have the combo of experience and certs. I have takin it as MY responsability to educate each client one at a time!! i have turned the "normal" formula on its head! it kinda goes like this....instaed of being shopped for by the public where they dictate what they want and are willing to pay for....I put advertising out to get people to call our service....Our entire message screams who we are from colors to logos to words to deeds...WE then sift through the calls to find people who want what we have (certs and all) and would rather pay us for our awesome service and knowledge combo, and throw the rest back!! i will not compromise !! We then ask those folks to tell their friends about us...since we all know birds of a feather...hang out!!
its not with out some wrinkles and exeptions but its a pretty good formula!! we wind up slowly cultivating a client base that is shopping for what we have We DO NOT WANT EVERY CLIENT!!!
 
I got my paper. College degree in forestry, ISA Cert., will be getting my certified tree risk assessor in june (I personally think that is just a baseline in terms of education/certs) I have always made it a point to let my experience lead the way, with education and 'paper' there to add to it. If you lose your job to a mexican/etc/whatever... work harder. I disagree about working for less pay, but when I show up on a job, I make it a point to be the hardest working, most efficient person there. As the only white guy on a reforestation crew for a summer, I made it a point to keep up with 40 other mexican guys. All it got me was respect on that crew, but when bosses look a little closer after first impressions, they see you have the full package. Educated, experienced, on time, responsible, and loyal will go far.
 
Why do I keep getting the slightly sweet smell of indulgence peddling; helping my bottom line instead of my immortal soul?


Bob Wulkowicz
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Why do I keep getting the slightly sweet smell of indulgence peddling; helping my bottom line instead of my immortal soul?

[/ QUOTE ]

Try blowing your nose.
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Why do you keep trying to polarize education and economics? It's a false dichotomy; plain as day. What's wrong with indulging one's desire to learn, then peddling/marketing that knowledge? Money is not evil; that bolshevik/communist experiment did not work out too well--see north korea and cuba. From the attached--5 years ago!:

as Alex Shigo once said, “Education and wages are twins that grow and mature at the same rate.” Shigo again: “Remember, ‘learn’ has ‘earn’ in it. The more you learn, the more you earn.” Education earns interest as it’s called upon to help us deal with new job challenges. Unlike trucks and tools and other forms of capital, it keeps increasing in value.
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That's a double edged sword my friend I know quite a few over educated people with poor " work ethic " whose earning potential is nowhere near their actual. In today's working middle class ( keep the hedge-fund managers, CEO's of big corp's and the wealthy out this equation ) I am more inclined to agree that your observation of learn and earn is seen more in the people who work with their hands as opposed to those that work pushing paper at a desk.
 
I don't know, you get me fired up Guy. You must make good posts.

I realize we've been victims of propaganda to keep the few rich. But to me communism vs capitalism = cooperation vs competition. Competition has worked well in the short term so long as the world has had natural resourses in abundance. Times are changing, we've used up just about everything and cooperation is about to equal survival.

What would the most efficient action to professionalize tree care be? Publishing injury reports both to trees and workers? There's a whole new way to get messages out, social media. Trees have the cute factor and get a good response like the animal rights movement or that child soldier campaign. Why not give it a try? Get it started and the movement could take on a life of it's own, gaining the results that we know are common sense if the public was only more informed.

P.S. Don't forget about forest trees in that campaign.
 
When I worked in a vocational training capacity, it was brought to my attention that residential/commercial tree workers and utility tree workers were not recognized in Federal documents as "Skilled Labor" trades.

Many tree workers are self taught, or taught on the job by self-taught coworkers. The formalized training from big companies is varied and often inconsistent.

Although there are several avenues of study and training for tree workers, I believe the ISA's Certifed Arborist program has been the most recognized, respected, and desired nationally.

The idea that tree work be recognized as a skilled trade is a critical one, and currently the CA through the ISA is your best bet.

If you have a job that can be taken by someone, anyone, with no training or experience, then you don't have a job worth having. The idea that arborists have a defined skill set and knowledge base is critical to our inclusion in the rapidly shrinking blue-collar middle class.

I often make sarcastic comments regarding the ISA and it's various certifications; but for many individuals those credentials are the only path to career growth available.


Personally:
On paper, the certifications I have earned have gotten me jobs.
On paper, the certifications I have let lapse have barred me from opportunities I could have otherwise pursued.
On the ground, in the field... the combination of experience, skill, and certification have earned me the respect of co-workers, been responsible for promotions, put me in leadership roles, and allowed me tremendous flexibility to move within the industry.
 
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