Gerasimek's Tree-mek

Hey Lumberjack are you having a bad experience with the Mecanil ? lots of negative posting ! My SG220 is stout the machining the fit ,quality operation is tip top ,14 months and the only problem was the hydraulic line on the cylinder leaking and Mecanil sent new ones no charge.
 
craneguy1 said:
But you broke the deck!!!
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Haha!


SJ_Treeguy said:
Hey Lumberjack are you having a bad experience with the Mecanil ? lots of negative posting ! My SG220 is stout the machining the fit ,quality operation is tip top ,14 months and the only problem was the hydraulic line on the cylinder leaking and Mecanil sent new ones no charge.
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I don't think I've had anything near "a lot of negative posting"; I have listed 4 specific issues with my Mecanil and compared it to my experience with the Gierkink counterpart. I also said I didn't see an advantage to driving the chain with a belt vs direct drive.

1: The Mecanil plumbing is more exposed than the Geirkink grapple saw... I've had the supply lines that run from the rotator to the valves snag on the boom and pull them loose. They didn't break, just loosened. Luckily I noticed something was hinky and didn't break the hoses... I also know to look out for the issue. Tiffin includes a full set of hoses for the Mecanil grapple saw and has replacements sitting on the shelf when you use the provided spare hose... can't beat that.

2: The chain has to be pried on the bar... this is true with the supplied 22" and 25" bar and chain combinations. I've been told the fix is to grind the bar to allow more adjustment. I've been told that a chain 1 drive link longer is too long and you run out of adjustment. This isn't acceptable on a $170 Poulan chain saw, why should it be acceptable on a ~$27k grapple saw?

3: My Mechanic's bar oil pump was defective from the time of assembly. Testing by Mecanil would have found this problem easily... it's not the end of the world, it just toasted a bar/chain. Tiffin had a replacement on the shelf and had it to me very quickly... can't beat that.

4: My Mecanil's tine weldments are sloppy. The pin bosses (the round thick part the pins run through) were welded on crooked. As a result of that, the tines drag the body of the grapple. This will likely never cause an issue, but it's a far cry from the fit and finish of the Gierkink counterpart.


That's 4 objective and specific issues with my Mecanil grapple, and minor comparison to the Geirkink grapple. I haven't provided pictures of the issues, but I'd be happy to if anyone is interested. To my knowledge, I am the only person here that has owned both brands of grapples. I have also noticed that the Gierkink seems to grab pieces more securely, likely due to the pieces on the belly of the grapple that dig into the piece of wood.


I have said from the beginning that the Mecanil's additional control is a benefit for knuckle boom operation. I still think the same way. The Mecanil's grapple also opens wider, which is obviously helpful. The additional bar length (stock) of the Mecanil is also helpful in many situations.
 
Fare enough Lumberjack I did read this newest post and the other one closer and I am sorry that i read them quickly, I should have spent more time to hear how you were presenting it.
About the chain i too was prying it on until i spoke to and saw the Mecanil video on how to install the chain, you put the chain on the bar and than start it on the sprocket and use a wrench to spin the sprocket nut and the chain is on easily.

The second generation Mecanil all of the hyd lines are pretty well hidden away from the branches , you are right about the rotator lines they are still exposed ,i have been working on getting mine tighter to the boom , no issues on branches catching my lines for 14 months.

All of the SG220 grapples i have seen (that would be 10 units ) the workmanship has been A1 , sorry to hear of your misalignment .

Your oiling issue do you think that Mecanil should test run it or that Tiffin should test run it or both?
 
I spin the sprocket also, still it's more cumbersome than I'm accustomed to. The only reason the chain length is so specific is a lack of travel in the adjuster.

On the oiler, there is a plug that blocks the hole on the side opposite where the bar oil comes in, coaxially aligned with each other. My problem was the bolt/plug (uses copper washer) was too long and deformed the piston on its first application. This jammed the piston in the bore and prevented function. When the replacement came in, I pulled the bolt and ground it shorter preemptively. The oiler is stupid simple (housing with piston, spring return, and a check valve). I would assume the factory would measure the bolts to prevent the issue... testing of the grapple should happen before it's shipped 4K miles.


All of my issues are thus far minor, and I don't expect complications from the misalignment. I still think the Mecanil is the best choice for knucklebooms... the G3 units could have some improvements to make them better.



Does anyone know why the grapple uses banjo fittings vs more standard fittings (JIC/metric equivalent)? A banjo fitting having 4 sealing surfaces (both sides of the copper washer) vs 1 on JIC.


Time to swap to the 25" bar and knock down 10 pines!
 
point well said , i can see other options than using banjo ! maybe they can manufacture them faster ? or they feel no need to change the design from the original !

And the oiler problem well i can see them keeping it simple ! Factory testing should always be , how hard is it to set up a test bed ,not that hard !
 
limbcontrol said:
Scenario # 1 your gross income was $5300 and satisfied two customers on your backlog, but had more expenses for that day

Scenario #2 your gross income was $3500 and satisfied one customer for that day, had less expenses for that day. It was a nice relaxing day.
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The thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is what else do these companies do? I would be out of work if I relied only on removing trees within 80' of truck access. To maintain my customers and workflow, we have to also trim trees and remove trees where a truck cannot get to. If you are without many employees these activities fall back on the tree-mek operator.

So... Are owners of these awesome trucks also doing other tree care operations?
 
AmericanArborist said:
The thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is what else do these companies do? I would be out of work if I relied only on removing trees within 80' of truck access. To maintain my customers and workflow, we have to also trim trees and remove trees where a truck cannot get to. If you are without many employees these activities fall back on the tree-mek operator.

So... Are owners of these awesome trucks also doing other tree care operations?
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Good point.
 
I'm pretty well only doing removals now, although I'll do trims for existing customers or bigger jobs if it makes sense. Still, we were already 90% removals... it's not worth my time to go look at a $300 trim it off a house job.
 
You know American Arborist no one has touched on that subject, we are a full service tree care company we also rent our kboom cranes out to other full service tree companies. My third kboom 83 feet tall was not big enough for some of the other tree services ( the trees in their part of NJ are taller ) so i decided to build a 112 foot kboom , after i started the build another post here on treebuzz caught my eye and that is why i have this equipment. My thought was to help our climbers out, less physical exposure in the removal process so that they could work where we needed them the most fine pruning . Morale is better work is being completed 25% faster , two men a chipper and mini skid are now completing removal jobs that three to four men where doing , so with no added man power or equipment purchases (other than the grapple saw) we are making 40 to 50% more money still servicing all of our clients ! We have had three storms in 14 months in a 40 mile radius that i have used the grapple saw on and the amount of work completed on blown over trees that no climber had to be involved in removing lessens our workers comp exposer another cost savings !

But you are right if companies are doing just removals (unless you use Glenn Gerasimek's model) or you rent out your crane or you have deep pockets you will struggle at the price of these trucks for just yourself.
 
Your PK40 has a PJ080D, or do you have another k boom getting you to 112'?

Here's one of the trees I knocked down this afternoon.
Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 8.26.46 PM.webp 2017-03-28 14.57.55 HDR.webp
 
limbcontrol said:
So Mark ....here's a hypothetical question for you...
Scenario #1
if you had the choice to pick a tree apart using your crane and crew you have now(3-5guys, log truck, chipper truck and kboom) taking big picks...bang out that $3500 job before lunch and take that crew after lunch and pluck an easy another $1800 job on your way back to the yard .
Scenario #2
Or would you rather go out and spend the day making smaller picks with only 2 guys with two trucks, Kboom equipped with grapple saw And chipper truck. Both trucks are now full of chips and wood and there isn't enough time to run to the dump and go bang out another job. So you are done by 2:30pm.

Scenario # 1 your gross income was $5300 and satisfied two customers on your backlog, but had more expenses for that day

Scenario #2 your gross income was $3500 and satisfied one customer for that day, had less expenses for that day. It was a nice relaxing day.

Is less men(climbers/groundsmen) and less drivers on a crane crew more or less profitable? Is your $30 an hour climber and your $15 an hour ground guys capable of "going somewhere else and running a job site" bringing you in more than that $1800. Of course, but they need another chipper too, a loader, and another truck to haul the wood away. So your expenses you saved on the morning job just went back up for those guys you sent somewhere else.

Employees and equipment are all investments, which combination will make you more money a year?
I've thought long and hard about this... I know what makes us profitable. It all depends on your business model and how it's structured.
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I don't chip anymore....I use a grapple truck for all the debris. I normally run 2 or 3 person crew.
What I was saying in my post was when I watched Glenn he took a piece every 2 minutes while standing on the ground. I would have done his 3 in 1 without the grapple saw but it would have taken just as much time to do it and I would have been up in the tree. So yes I think the grapple saw is safer and more efficient. There are times when it would be more efficient to just use the crane as a crane. Knowing when to do that and not use the saw is what would increase productivity. With my grapple truck I can have a separate crew working and creating debris to be picked up later or I can send the truck to dump while I start the afternoon job you referenced. when the grapple truck showed up after dumping it can easily catch up to the afternoon removal.
 
So here is another question, you rent the crane out to other companies with an operator. What rate are you charging for that work? I myself wouldn't want to sub out to another company and enable them access to the treemek that you just shelled out $250K for. It seems if you held out and just worked for yourself you would get the work anyways and would have more revenue because you would retain all the income from the job.
 
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AmericanArborist said:
So here is another question, you rent the crane out to other companies with an operator. What rate are you charging for that work? I myself wouldn't want to sub out to another company and enable them access to the treemek that you just shelled out $250K for. It seems if you held out and just worked for yourself you would get the work anyways and would have a revenue because you would retain all the income from the job.
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Determining the appropriate rate for your unit and operating it as many hours as possible is the best way to pay for a capital expense like this. Partnering or sub-contracting for other firms provides value for all parties. Why not do twice the business, at similar margins, by leveraging your specialized equipment to tap into alternative pipelines?
 
AmericanArborist said:
So here is another question, you rent the crane out to other companies with an operator. What rate are you charging for that work? I myself wouldn't want to sub out to another company and enable them access to the treemek that you just shelled out $250K for. It seems if you held out and just worked for yourself you would get the work anyways and would have a revenue because you would retain all the income from the job.
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That's what I thought at first, but I realized that's short sighted. Any work you do for another company is work you didn't get... doing it for them gets money in your pocket you wouldn't have had access to.
 
IMG_0003.webp Sorry AmericanArborist i should have explained , i hire out to 2 really good friends in my 25 mile radius for tree work $1200 for a tree job day (that means till the job is done!)

And to 4 other certified arborist companies 45 miles from my house (so there is no competition ) $1400 for a tree day, or any other certified arborist company that calls me, i will move wood to a dump site because i have a dump body but if i have to go to my dump site that is an additional charge. I also do air conditioner lifts , granite counter tops into second floor kitchens (we are near the beach communities) and there are a lot of duplex houses so the people on the second floor want what the people on the first floor have (sub zero refrigerators , leather couches, big dishwashers ) i am busy 3 days a week with all of that and my own tree work. We are fortune it to have 2 kboom trucks , the smaller one is a 25 tonne meter Heila on a single rear axle frieghtliner 33,000gvw 76 feet side reach 83 feet vertical 800 lbs , very maneuverable . Get the money any way you can!
 
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