Flouting PPE the cool way

Nish

Nish

Branched out member
Location
North Carolina
Whatever the reason, moralizing grows pretty thick on internet forums. As a counterbalance I'll pose this question: in what ways might it be appropriate, or at least cool, to flout the canonical standards of PPE and safety? Surely not everyone who does so is a hack, an amateur, or an idiot. Who would censure Beranek for chainsawing one-handed in his homemade saddle? Or how about this guy (check out what he's doing about half way through)? I've got a few thoughts on this, but not many.
 
Sometimes the proof is in the pudding... old dude still has all of his toes. I'm guessing he's been doing that for a very long time, since it's not something you can do that well and quickly with a couple of quick lessons and one practice attempt. Still... I'm pretty sure that they have steel toed boots in Japan.

Personally, I think there are times and situations when what you are familiar with, and fairly adept at, is safer than what a nearby OSHA representative might think you need to be doing. OSHA regulations are sometimes a bit like hotdogs... the more you know about how they're made, the harder they are to swallow.

On the other hand, they have a job a to do, and I think they mean well and are usually right. If they get it a little wrong once in awhile, it's not because they're evil... it's because they're human.
 
i dont have a comment on the one-handing deal, but my hard hat has (probably) saved my life from kick back. it at least saved me from being a hell of lot uglier.
so its hard for me to think about not using PPE, when i already kinda "owe it one".

i wish i still had that hard hat and ear muff that took the grunt of the blow because you could see the marks from the chain, but at the moment of that accident i had other things on my mind.

Whatever you decide during your own work day Nish, be preventative, cause its way harder to be "curative". stay safe
 
I could care less what/how some one else does something. So long as you don't hurt the innocent or others property. You want to live on the edge, that's up to you I won't judge you if something bad happens, I might state the obvious....

I worked with some one for a few years who was quick to judge. He'd see some one doing tree work with no eye, ear, or head ppe and make a hack related comment. He never wore leg/chap ppe...I once reminded him he did not wear chaps or protective boots, he got pretty upset trying to justify his lack of actions...I bet every one who chooses not to protect themselves could justify. I sure a hell can.

I will say, after what I have seen ski patrolling I am with out a doubt convinced there is a magic for preventing people from dying all the time more then not. I'll bet there are 99% plus near misses then actual accidents. Like the magic force that keeps the cars on their side of those double yellow lines. Personally I think driving is the most dangerous act one takes part in on a daily basis. When I'm in a tree it's only me, when I'm one the road... Who knows what who's doing while they are coming at me with all our speed and steel. If it is your time for a reminder of you mortality or karma or whatever, I don't think you could ppe yourself out of it. That said, I wear lots of ppe...makes me look and feel cool, there for I am!?
 
Just a few questions:

1 Why wouldn't you want to be safe?

2 If your taking the time to think through what part of my PPE don't I need for this job your wasting time

3 I know our company has standards in place of PPE in general and for each piece of equipment so you do it or I kick you to the curb

4 Do you know why insurance is so high

5 You may not like OSHA, ministry of labour, 'the man' but most of these rules were made up after injury or death, and someone said 'ah damn he shouldn't have done that'

6 There are pro to hacks and all of us in between but how many of us that aren't hack have untested, uncertified, home made saddles

7 If you're in a home made saddle should some one also explain the don't spur every tree you see rule

8 What year is it, is there a time machine that were in to go back to free climbing spur pruning.

9 I know theres a lot of pencil pushing that OSHA, etc goes through but you should look at who's telling them what to write and why and for who. They may just not want you to be a statistical dead guy.

10 Can anyone list 3 good reasons to omit PPE

11 If there are so many people out there than can do the job while wearing a real saddle and managing to keep that oh so heavy hard hat on there head why can't you, if your not a hack

12 If safety standards are to much for you pack it in and get out now time for a new job. Leave it to those capable.

13 Last one, if something horribly tragic ever did come to pass to you, I pray it never does. It won't be you burdened with knocking on the door of your wife, your mother, your kids and having to explain that yes there is even one thing that someone could have done to make it so you could have walked back through that door, but we didn't do it because (insert bs excuse here). Shame on you and those who let you away with it.
I don't think there are many guys out there that would be with me in saying we'd rather drag hawthorn for a year than have to look at your family knowing we could have done something more and didn't because safety standards were just to high to meet.
 
JeffGu said:
Sometimes the proof is in the pudding... old dude still has all of his toes. I'm guessing he's been doing that for a very long time, since it's not something you can do that well and quickly with a couple of quick lessons and one practice attempt. Still... I'm pretty sure that they have steel toed boots in Japan.

Personally, I think there are times and situations when what you are familiar with, and fairly adept at, is safer than what a nearby OSHA representative might think you need to be doing. OSHA regulations are sometimes a bit like hotdogs... the more you know about how they're made, the harder they are to swallow.

On the other hand, they have a job a to do, and I think they mean well and are usually right. If they get it a little wrong once in awhile, it's not because they're evil... it's because they're human.
Click to expand...

Any certain regulations of issue?
 
The part I disagree with is not caring what other people do. This is OUR industry, and we all pay the price for those who flout the rules. I also feel that we can make change from within, which is why I have become involved in ISA and TCIA.

The part that I totally agree with is that EVERYONE justifies some unsafe practice SOMEWHERE in life, whether it's not wearing a seatbelt just driving down the street or safety glasses when it's humid,etc.

The part about driving being dangerous is also spot on. People texting while operating their 5,000 pound missiles is something I see every day.

Tom
 
Any reductions in the cost of PPE should be used for life insurance payments. There is no cool way of flouting PPE. PPE is cool.
 
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  • Ask your mamma what she thinks.
  • Let me record your apology and explanation to your wife/family/kids now so I don't have to be the one to tell them.
  • This isn't a democracy, it's a benign dictatorship
  • Like Gerry Cheevers did with his goalie mask, but stitches on your helmet every where something has hit it.
  • gary_cheevers.jpg
 
KevinS said:
Any certain regulations of issue?
Click to expand...

In my case, they involved systems for roofing that made sense in commercial applications and certain very steep-roof jobs... but presented a huge cost investment and outright dangerous work environment for small companies doing residential roofing. After seeing this first hand, most of the regulations were dropped or modified by OSHA for such work. The single most dangerous part of residential roofing for my crews was stepping on a hose, extension cord or rope on a sloped roof. It rolls and sends you flying off the edge before you can even react. Putting a spiderweb of ropes criss-crossing the roof not only cut production in half, increased costs to us (and thereby to the customer) but added new hazards to the jobsite from tripping over the ropes, stepping on them, or even being pulled over backwards by the neck when someone else's "safety line" crossed over you while laying shingles and a worker crossed to another part of the roof. Luckily, the idea was modified to the simpler systems we were already using on roofs with steeper pitches.
 
treehumper said:
So, what you're saying is the system as it stands works.
Click to expand...

Actually, what I'm saying is that it sometimes takes a minor revolt within an industry to make it work, because sometimes the proposals are way out of sync with what is practical.

If arborists were required to string 5/8" safety ropes horizontally every 4 feet of vertical height above ground in a circle around the tree, with fall arrestors hooking the entire crew to them, while carrying at least one fire extinguisher and wearing a bee suit and a ventilator... well, they would revolt, too. If you've never done tree work, that plan might even make sense to you. But it would have negative impacts on the industry, and might cause more accidents than it prevented.
 
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