Figure 8 for 1/2" rope?

[southsoundtree]

I wonder if 2-3 wraps around the straight spine of a biner would work any better than a munter.

A tuber-style device would be better than a F8. Black diamond ATC, etc. http://www.omcgear.com/black-diamon...H95UbvSc6Vl3_TQPo5trYnLwDuHROfuAaAnm4EALw_wcB

The F-eight system would not twist the rope, which is a benefit of the ATC.

Personally, I'd try the F8/ F-eight Revolver system, but not with a Revolver, just a standard biner.


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[ghostice]

As per Tom above, I always, always descend on a whatever and a Munter looped on a biner on my right leg loop -- right hand on the rope below the Munter/ biner and left hand on the RR/ Hitch/ ZZ/ Uni - whatever the flavour of the day (haven't done the Akimbo thing yet). This saves wear on the RR/ Hitch/ ZZ/ Uni as well as stripping ice/ frozen slop pre-hitch, in winter etc. as I've written before in other threads. In alpine the F8 has gone the way of the (name extinct species here) - everyone seems to be on ATC's or some version thereof unless its rescue gear like break bars etc. And F8's do a real crank job on the rope so why not use something that doesn't (although Munters do add rope twists as well)?

Addition while I was writing - never had a 'Munter looped on a biner on my right leg loop' twist the rope going into the RR, at least if it can go 'loopy' below me.

 

[Jonny]

Yeah I was thinking Munter above the RR. I like the leg loop idea better, let it twist.

 

[climbstihl]

@southsoundtree

As per Tom above, I always, always descend on a whatever and a Munter looped on a biner on my right leg loop -- right hand on the rope below the Munter/ biner and left hand on the RR/ Hitch/ ZZ/ Uni - whatever the flavour of the day (haven't done the Akimbo thing yet). This saves wear on the RR/ Hitch/ ZZ/ Uni as well as stripping ice/ frozen slop pre-hitch, in winter etc. as I've written before in other threads. In alpine the F8 has gone the way of the (name extinct species here) - everyone seems to be on ATC's or some version thereof unless its rescue gear like break bars etc. And F8's do a real crank job on the rope so why not use something that doesn't (although Munters do add rope twists as well)?

Addition while I was writing - never had a 'Munter looped on a biner on my right leg loop' twist the rope going into the RR, at least if it can go 'loopy' below me.

Tube devices only work up to 11mm, and I hear that they don't work well on static rope that thick anyway. You could use a rappel ring on a biner though.
The figure 8 also has other uses, like a static redirect or a length adjustment for a third climbing system (on the tail, F8 in Autoblock mode)
You can use a tube as the latter too, if you have an ATC Guide or a reverso. But again, 11mm is already pushing the limit.

 

[Treezybreez]

I use my small Black Diamond F8 on 5/8" rigging line all the time. First pop a bite of the line through the big hole, then take an HMS biner and catch the bite and the small hole of the F8. Works very smoothly.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Be creative...anyone can get a Figure Eight...look at Letter Eights...and some other interesting devices

Gary Storrick Letter Devices

Poke around to find more info than you can absorb in a week.

 

[Stephen Moore]

Black Diamond, Fusion, etc...all of the ones I can find specs on say they are good for up to 11mm or so rope diameters.

Are there any that are good for 1/2" rope? Or will pretty much any work, even if the spec says to use smaller diameters?

For what my advice is worth I use a rescue 8 all the time with every size rope up to 5/8” with no issue.

 

[fall_risk]

Tube devices only work up to 11mm, and I hear that they don't work well on static rope that thick anyway. You could use a rappel ring on a biner though.
The figure 8 also has other uses, like a static redirect or a length adjustment for a third climbing system (on the tail, F8 in Autoblock mode)
You can use a tube as the latter too, if you have an ATC Guide or a reverso. But again, 11mm is already pushing the limit.

I have used a munter, a f8, and a ring/biner "sticht plate" from my leg loop or lower dee, and I think they all work pretty well. I think that's the order of decreasing hockling. You can also use them MRS/DdRT to save wear on your split tail. In a pinch, you can descend on any of them with just a hitch. You can see the ring/biner sticht plate in action in the last couple of seconds of the hitch climber's guide to the canopy. That's where I picked it up.

I'd like to see what you mean about a length adjustment in autoblock mode, I'm not sure what you mean.

I really like the static redirect in general, but especially the two methods I've used with a f8, they're quicker to install and easier to adjust than using a munter or clove hitch.

I also occasionally use a f8 as a super-quick, descent-only, non-life-support Ddrt system on my tail to return from a high angle and/or hit something on the way down. I like it better that a munter or some of the other quick and dirty techniques because it's so easy to lock off, but way faster than a full on tail tie.

I have often wondered how useful a tube-style device would be in tree work, but had given up on finding one, until I discovered the Omega Pacific SBG2. It's good for 8mm - 13mm. I haven't picked one up, but I bet it would be useful.

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[climbstihl]

I'd like to see what you mean about a length adjustment in autoblock mode, I'm not sure what you mean.

I also occasionally use a f8 as a super-quick, descent-only, non-life-support Ddrt system on my tail to return from a high angle and/or hit something on the way down. I like it better that a munter or some of the other quick and dirty techniques because it's so easy to lock off, but way faster than a full on tail tie.

I have often wondered how useful a tube-style device would be in tree work, but had given up on finding one, until I discovered the Omega Pacific SBG2. It's good for 8mm - 13mm. I haven't picked one up, but I bet it would be useful.

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk.

What I mean by length adjustment is sort of a progress capture, basically the reverse of what you're saying about the descent only DdRT system, although you can use it on your tail in SrT too. If you use the F8 in Autoblock mode, you can use it to capture your progress on a traverse or something like that, or have an autolocking descender for your controlled return to the tree.
I don't think that a standard tube is very useful, a ring can do most of what it can and more. A guide style tube would be useful though, for a minimalist RADS setup for example.

 

[fall_risk]

What I mean by length adjustment is sort of a progress capture, basically the reverse of what you're saying about the descent only DdRT system, although you can use it on your tail in SrT too. If you use the F8 in Autoblock mode, you can use it to capture your progress on a traverse or something like that, or have an autolocking descender for your controlled return to the tree.
I don't think that a standard tube is very useful, a ring can do most of what it can and more. A guide style tube would be useful though, for a minimalist RADS setup for example.

I'd never heard of autoblock mode , looked it up, may be using my f8 even more often now, thanks.

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[LordFarkwad]

I have often wondered how useful a tube-style device would be in tree work, but had given up on finding one, until I discovered the Omega Pacific SBG2. It's good for 8mm - 13mm. I haven't picked one up, but I bet it would be useful.

Make a post when/if you do end up trying one. I've come across that guy before in my internet travels and was curious as to why we don't see more 'tube-style' belay devices in tree climbing.

 

[climbstihl]

Make a post when/if you do end up trying one. I've come across that guy before in my internet travels and was curious as to why we don't see more 'tube-style' belay devices in tree climbing.

Again, what advantage does a standard tube have over a ring, besides a little bit more friction and an integrated keeper?

 

[LordFarkwad]

Again, what advantage does a standard tube have over a ring, besides a little bit more friction and an integrated keeper?

Just thinking about it, I can't see any immediate/obvious advantages, to be honest. But literally I have no experience in the matter either way. I guarantee you know 4x more than I do about climbing, so I am 100% ok in taking your word that there is no advantage.

 

[climbstihl]

Just thinking about it, I can't see any immediate/obvious advantages, to be honest. But literally I have no experience in the matter either way. I guarantee you know 4x more than I do about climbing, so I am 100% ok in taking your word that there is no advantage.

I just want to say that I have no experience with tubes either, I've only used rings as one. I have looked into them though, and an ATC guide is on my list, because that can be quite useful I think. What bothers me most is the lack of options for larger ropes with guide style tubes.
I don't know if I know 4 times as much as you about climbing, I am completely self-taught, and I've only been climbing for about a year with ropes and safe techniques. (You don't want to know how I was climbing as a small kid with hardware store rope...).
The only thing I have ggoing for me is that I seem to be able to understand complex stuff pretty quickly if I see it on a picture or something, that makes learning online really easy. I'm not anymore of an expert than you though.

 

[LordFarkwad]

I just want to say that I have no experience with tubes either, I've only used rings as one. I have looked into them though, and an ATC guide is on my list, because that can be quite useful I think. What bothers me most is the lack of options for larger ropes with guide style tubes.
I don't know if I know 4 times as much as you about climbing, I am completely self-taught, and I've only been climbing for about a year with ropes and safe techniques. (You don't want to know how I was climbing as a small kid with hardware store rope...).
The only thing I have ggoing for me is that I seem to be able to understand complex stuff pretty quickly if I see it on a picture or something, that makes learning online really easy. I'm not anymore of an expert than you though.

Completely self-taught? Dag.

Ok well, maybe in that case, 4x is a little much. Haha. But, I'm more like 6 months of on-my-own+internet, with about 16hrs or so of climbing instruction with several local professionals.

Such a fun and practical hobby!

I feel at times like I chose poorly by going with 1/2" rope, due to exactly what your are saying, where the overwhelming majority of of hardware seems to be designed for 11mm and less. BUT...I like this Vortex.

 

[climbstihl]

Completely self-taught? Dag.

Ok well, maybe in that case, 4x is a little much. Haha. But, I'm more like 6 months of on-my-own+internet, with about 16hrs or so of climbing instruction with several local professionals.

Such a fun and practical hobby!

I feel at times like I chose poorly by going with 1/2" rope, due to exactly what your are saying, where the overwhelming majority of of hardware seems to be designed for 11mm and less. BUT...I like this Vortex.

Well, all the tree climbing was self taught. I had some training in April, but all that was taught was ascending a rope with a hand ascender with footloop and a semi-automatic belay device, also using a backup device. Lowering people from a platform was also covered. But that doesn't really count because it wasn't really anything new, or just not relevant to tree climbing.
Yeah, I like my 1/2" 16 strand too, especially the cover-only splice. And it runs very well with hitches. I'll be getting some 10 or 10.5mm kernmantle for use with a grigri though.

 

[DSMc]

... I feel at times like I chose poorly by going with 1/2" rope, due to exactly what your are saying, where the overwhelming majority of of hardware seems to be designed for 11mm and less. BUT...I like this Vortex.

That Vortex combined with the HH2 will not need any friction assist devices on descents. Nothing gets overtaxed and that makes things simple, safe and more enjoyable.

Just as skinny ropes are hard to hold onto by hand, the same is true with the tools that grip them. That can translate into excess heat and accelerated wear.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Man, I love my HH2! Never have had ANY creep with the HH that made me feel the need to back it up.