Feedback Please

Steve Connally said:
The truck takes down the tree without a climber.
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But it doesn’t. Moderate sized wood, you are done without a climber. Too much set back, done. Sure you can prune, but you still need to send a climber to finish the cut (not really arboricutural pruning if you are doing it with the mek).

rico said:
Steve I personally dug your honest, low key sales pitch. The quality of your work and the machine speak for themselves in the vid. 2 guys, the Mek, and a chipper show up and crush it, doing it quicker and safer than the traditional crane with a climber and 5 guys on the ground. Thats your pitch. Plain and simple.
Quality work creates work, so keep doing what your doing.
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But it’s not faster! The truck has to be close to use it. Has a limited chart with the saw (I seem to remember 800lbs for Ricks). I can put a 30t stick as close or closer cause the truck is smaller/lighter and take moderate 2500-3000lbs pieces as fast a the cycle time of 2 of a mek. Basically reducing time by one mek cycle each pick at the very least.
Convince me!
Steve this is where I said confidence is important. The “I don’t know what else you want me to say” doesn’t cut it.
I’m probably being an asshole but the guys you are trying to convince are gonna say the SAME EXACT thing. You NEED to be able to come back calm and level headed with a reasonably logical answer without hesitation. Or they will just think you are a crack pot with a fancy truck.

Again I’m not trying to be malicious just trying to get you to think about how they are convinced it’s not worth it. So you can correct them.
 
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But I can and I’ve tried butyoure not hearing it. I think it’s great you are sold that a stick crane is the only efricent option. Since it’s you hiring the crane it’s your choice. If you don’t want to be convinced it’s an option, a 3 minute video is never gonna do it. I’ve got a bunch of companies that feel like it was a good solution for them. Not everyone is as efficient as you with stick crane work and some folks see this as a viable option. I can turn around debris at the chipper in 3 minute intervals. Not always but often. I can take 1000lbs at 94, horizontal with the saw. I can take 1000 at anywhere on my load chart with the saw. I’m rarely on top of any tree I take down. Most are in the back yard and over houses. To be honest I don’t think there is anything I could possibly say that would convince you it was an efficient option. It would have saved both our time if you had just told me there’s no way a rhis truck could ever do a better job than a stick and we would have just left it at that. You can disputed my claims all ou want but you really need to spend some time with the truck before you make your final decision.
 
If you fail to see the confidence in what I’m saying I don’t think you are willing to actually listen to what I’m saying. The truck is not bigger than a 33 nor is my curb weight heavier. I’m not sure how you get that. Also a stick has to go over all the obstacles. I can go through and under. I’m not really interested in debating with you as it’s clear you cannot be convinced otherwise and that’s fine. There’s gonna be guys like you in my market I’ll never have to opportunity to work for. That’s ok. Same guys who fail to see the benefit of a mini loader because t can’t life what a large loader can. I feel like we’ve passed constructive here and a progressing into a pissing contest over stick VS kboom, STIHL vs husky, bandit vs Vermeer.
 
Given the opportunity for a conversation I can confidently and assuredly answer any questions with accuracy and examples. If they don’t wanna hear it, they aren’t gonna and so be it
 
from my perspective, the removal you are showing in the vid does not in anyway show your crane is making more money than a traditonal removal.
you need to show the unclimable, difficult access, high hazard tree, no rig points etc type scenario.
Crane for me and I am not sure if there is more who work the way I do, rareley means more effecient. It has to be spelled out in a way for this ol numb skull to make sense.
no rope man
no climber
no rig points
no brush hauler
no clean up under the tree and along the path to the chipper
i am sure there is more you can add, spell it out, show the images that sell that and I think it is pretty is sell.
I would use your service on occasion if the price was right and helped to sell the job to property owner. most ho's don't want the added expense of a crane. especially for pruning. I think you could do better selling crown reductions over removals. Hope this helps and excuse the repeating of what others have said.
 
Steve Connally said:
But I can and I’ve tried butyoure not hearing it. I think it’s great you are sold that a stick crane is the only efricent option. Since it’s you hiring the crane it’s your choice. If you don’t want to be convinced it’s an option, a 3 minute video is never gonna do it. I’ve got a bunch of companies that feel like it was a good solution for them. Not everyone is as efficient as you with stick crane work and some folks see this as a viable option. I can turn around debris at the chipper in 3 minute intervals. Not always but often. I can take 1000lbs at 94, horizontal with the saw. I can take 1000 at anywhere on my load chart with the saw. I’m rarely on top of any tree I take down. Most are in the back yard and over houses. To be honest I don’t think there is anything I could possibly say that would convince you it was an efficient option. It would have saved both our time if you had just told me there’s no way a rhis truck could ever do a better job than a stick and we would have just left it at that. You can disputed my claims all ou want but you really need to spend some time with the truck before you make your final decision.
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There it is right there Steve. You are revolutionizing crane work in your area! You cannot and won’t replace a stick crane, but you can do so much more. These are the points you need to focus on.
 
Steve Connally said:
If you fail to see the confidence in what I’m saying I don’t think you are willing to actually listen to what I’m saying. The truck is not bigger than a 33 nor is my curb weight heavier. I’m not sure how you get that. Also a stick has to go over all the obstacles. I can go through and under. I’m not really interested in debating with you as it’s clear you cannot be convinced otherwise and that’s fine. There’s gonna be guys like you in my market I’ll never have to opportunity to work for. That’s ok. Same guys who fail to see the benefit of a mini loader because t can’t life what a large loader can. I feel like we’ve passed constructive here and a progressing into a pissing contest over stick VS kboom, STIHL vs husky, bandit vs Vermeer.
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Steve, I think the point flyingsquirrel and I are driving home to you isn’t the fact we think your k-boom mech has no place. We are picking up the role of the other 50% of companies in your area. Stubborn ass tree guys stuck in their ways. We see your video and don’t see any major advantages to how we have been doing it all these years with stick booms, so why change? The biggest point I took from your video is reduced crew size. Well I know when we did more crane work a great climber and a bad ass groundie with a good crane op can crush work.
The company I use to work for had a little k-boom, so the reality is you don’t have to convince me of the differences or benefits. You need to humbly focus on more strong points.
I nearly want to piss you off, and get into an arguement with you just so you can go off and tell me all the ways I’m wrong. Start there, make your list, then rephrase all your points in your awesome humble fashion. That is what I see you needing.
 
RopeShield said:
from my perspective, the removal you are showing in the vid does not in anyway show your crane is making more money than a traditonal removal.
you need to show the unclimable, difficult access, high hazard tree, no rig points etc type scenario.
Crane for me and I am not sure if there is more who work the way I do, rareley means more effecient. It has to be spelled out in a way for this ol numb skull to make sense.
no rope man
no climber
no rig points
no brush hauler
no clean up under the tree and along the path to the chipper
i am sure there is more you can add, spell it out, show the images that sell that and I think it is pretty is sell.
I would use your service on occasion if the price was right and helped to sell the job to property owner. most ho's don't want the added expense of a crane. especially for pruning. I think you could do better selling crown reductions over removals. Hope this helps and excuse the repeating of what others have said.
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Thanks Thomas. The logistics of getting that perfect job lined up for a video guy is a lot harder than it seems. Wish had the leeway to be able to do that. The particular job/jobs that were video'd were a get it on the ground and leave job and a job for a company who only has 2 guys. They couldn't have managed either effectively with the manpower given I do get what you are saying.
 
Aren't there other tree-mek videos from friendly non-competitor tree-mek owners to borrow until you get a great video?




I wonder how many landscapers sub a climber/ tree company for doing tree jobs for their customers, then do all the clean-up?



How many local small-time operations pass up hard trees because they don't have the technical skills, effectively passing the job to the capable companies... so half to the companies who you have worked for, and half to the other guys who won't change their ways.


There is a crazy amount of biomass out here, so there are soooo many small operations. Maybe less so, there. Are there a lot of one- or two-person operations.

Do you have advertising at the saw shops? Business cards or brochure or whatnot?

Do you have a brochure or flyer to be able to hand out?


Old climbers not changing their ways, no way! I can't imagine there are guys out there spiking everything on a taut line hitch, if anything, or using a bowline termination knot without back-up. Oh wait...
 
evo said:
Steve, I think the point flyingsquirrel and I are driving home to you isn’t the fact we think your k-boom mech has no place. We are picking up the role of the other 50% of companies in your area. Stubborn ass tree guys stuck in their ways. We see your video and don’t see any major advantages to how we have been doing it all these years with stick booms, so why change? The biggest point I took from your video is reduced crew size. Well I know when we did more crane work a great climber and a bad ass groundie with a good crane op can crush work.
The company I use to work for had a little k-boom, so the reality is you don’t have to convince me of the differences or benefits. You need to humbly focus on more strong points.
I nearly want to piss you off, and get into an arguement with you just so you can go off and tell me all the ways I’m wrong. Start there, make your list, then rephrase all your points in your awesome humble fashion. That is what I see you needing.
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Thank you. The point is if anyone is interested in hearing those points they'll call. If they are stubborn ass tree guys stuck in their ways they only way to change their mind is to show them. Like trying to convince someone setting the rite TIP and planning the job is more efficient than just spiking up a removal and figuring it out when you get to the top. Some people have to actually see it to be convinced. I have a limited budget, a time limitation and don't have the option of picking one of 24 different jobs to film to have the perfect set up. It is what it is. It will either spark interest and dialogue or it won't. I can have that conversation early and sell it well. What I can't do is get in a pissing match to prove my point. You can't convince the unconvinceable and it has to be presented in a humble fashion showing I understand everything has its place and it isn't the silver bullet for every job. I know what the limitations and the benefits of the truck are. I've crushed many jobs will with minimal manpower and a stick crane over the years. I'm no rookie when it comes to that. I've also smashed jobs with a 17t crane where it clearly called for a 60t. I feel like the expectation for the video is something not possible. It's an effort to spike interest and offer a dialogue. The particular job video'd made that 2 man company a bunch of money, didn't kill them on the labor and got it done during the timeframe they wanted. The put very good money on it and they used me because they felt like my machine was the best fit for their crew. They were very capable of doing it with a 33 but spent the time standing at the chipper and taking 6 log pics. ^ log pics kept the logs at the perfect size for the logger to come get them. The didn't have to cut big logs and move them around with a loader. They didn't have to climb their asses off because none of the companies in the area will let you ride the hook. I brushed them out, they chipped them. I loaded the scrap into their trailer and put the logs out for the log man. They felt like it was perfect for them. As a matter of fact this company looks at every removal they bid to see if I can do it with the truck. I've made them enough money to buy a stump grinder, a mini, and a new trailer. Their prices still come in the same as the big boys with a 5 man crew and their own crane. Sure they can't do three of those jobs in a day but they don't need to and they aren't wasted tired at the end of the day every day.

I think what you are loosing is I have 4min tops to say what I have to say without making it seem like this thing blows away a stick crane, looking like a salesman, and coming off like my shit doesn't stink and I am gods gift to tree work. Humble soft sell and a realistic approach. The fact I showed up on a 50k job for a company who booked me for a week, got rained out the first 2 days, reduced their crew size from 8 to me and 2 people at the chipper, the other 6 went and made money they didn't expect to make that week, and I took out 13 huge trees all by myself is testament enough. I addressed that but I only have 3 minutes before the attention is lost and my words are mumbles.

I just don't think you guys get what i'm going at. There is no video thats gonna convince you otherwise in 3 minutes. What it may do is have someone on the fence say, hmmmmm thats an option but I don't know. Let me call this guy and see what he has to say. The initial contact is the important point. I can have a conversation after that and address all the questions, issues, and concerns. Conversations are dynamic. You can't do that on a prerecorded video. You can't answer every question in 3 minutes. Do you ever buy something based on a 45sec tc commercial or a 1 page add in a magazine? No it sparks your interest and you either call and talk sales or you don't. How do you expect this to work otherwise.

Goals; state difference between a stick and a boom-done
what are some of the benefits-done
how can I help your bottom line-done

What exactly is it you want me to say on a 3 minute video. When and if they call I know exactly how to go with the conversation. I don't se how trying to piss me off solves anything i'm trying to accomplish other than to have a video product that sounds arrogant and defensive. I find it less than constructive and i'm not trying to convince any of they tree gods on here to do anything they aren't doing already. Gosh I never dreamed there would be so much passionate resistance to the notion this truck could do the things it can do.
 
southsoundtree said:
Aren't there other tree-mek videos from friendly non-competitor tree-mek owners to borrow until you get a great video?***
***********Yes but I'm not going to use someone else video the footage on mine is great**********



I wonder how many landscapers sub a climber/ tree company for doing tree jobs for their customers, then do all the clean-up?

*********a bunch*********************



How many local small-time operations pass up hard trees because they don't have the technical skills, effectively passing the job to the capable companies... so half to the companies who you have worked for, and half to the other guys who won't change their ways.

************several of the companies I work for are as you described and call me just because of what you stated****************


There is a crazy amount of biomass out here, so there are soooo many small operations. Maybe less so, there. Are there a lot of one- or two-person operations. *******tons**********


Do you have advertising at the saw shops? Business cards or brochure or whatnot? ******not in the saw shops***************

Do you have a brochure or flyer to be able to hand out? ********yes I mailed out 120 of them and a strong local social media presence*************************


Old climbers not changing their ways, no way! I can't imagine there are guys out there spiking everything on a taut line hitch, if anything, or using a bowline termination knot without back-up. Oh wait...
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The video is done. I appreciate the feedback but in a way wish I hadn't even asked. This entire exercise has taken a down turn for me and has left me feeling totally opposite from how I felt asking this group for feedback. I'm so not interested in a virtual pissing contest across the inter webs. Appreciate the time people have put into this thread but it's no longer enhancing my day positively. Its honestly left me feeling like fuck it and just cancelling all of it and thats wrong to feel that way. Thats the beauty of the net. You never know the tone of people, how they actually feel because writing is work, and you can't have a 2 way conversation about things. Again thanks for the feedback but i'm thinking this thread should dead out about now.
 
Stay single! (Not talking married life either) It would be awesome if it was feasible to have a container or 2 dropped at a designated spot on a location and just place the material in it and leave.
 
craneguy1 said:
Stay single! (Not talking married life either) It would be awesome if it was feasible to have a container or 2 dropped at a designated spot on a location and just place the material in it and leave.
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Sure would but then I have to rake and make sure the container guys don't destroy the yard. If worse comes to worse I could do that but i'd rather have my buddy make his money and take my share hourly. More work I feed him the more he uses me. It's a great relationship.
 
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